The Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans/Questioning/Issues Thread

[technopagan78]

Yellowsub, coming out sucks. That's the honest truth. But coming into any sexuality has its sucking points (please take that point in the way it was intended, lol). Sure it's easier to be a status quo heterosexual, but I listen to my oh so straight seventeen year old nephew's love tales of woe, and I realize that his confusions are not all that different from mine at that age. And now that I am roughly as old as dirt, I can safely say that sexuality is confusing, awkward, scary, crazy, wonderful. It happens in her mind, our skin, our blood, our bones. Love is this amazing gift, but sexuality is what sets our world aflame. And anything that intense is bound to be a whole heap o' trouble.



Try to stop beating yourself up for wanting to be held. It's called being a human being. And stop trying to fit yourself into some preconceived notion of a proper sexuality, one with borderlines and score cards. You'll find your own way. And it will be beautiful. Anyone who cares enough to ask these sorts of questions is probably pretty amazing already.



I can't imagine how hard it must be to have lost your in-school support group, but you still have us. And may I be the first to say, college GLBT meetings totally rock. If there are any colleges in your area, you might want to check out their meetings. At my old school, and my current school, we welcome anybody to our meetings--we don't care if you are a student, questioning, over 18--our purpose is to offer support--and provide insight into where to go to find really hot disco.



Take care, sweetie.

[slayer747]

i'm here again at the kitten. anyway, to all of you who are having troubles, my prayers are with you. and this next part is for everyone, i hope that by reading this you'll have more faith because this is all i could offer for now.

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it has been a very interesting month for me. and the girl im in love with... well, we're friends now. and she knows and that she's ok about it. i actually found that out at 2am this morning. anyway, all i know is that i am happy now. and i wouldn't trade anything that has happened over the past three weeks that we have been friends. i actually don't expect anything more, since by the way that i am feeling now, i never knew that such happiness exist in the world. and i know that as long as she is willing to be my friend, as long as she is a part of me i'll be okay and that i will always look forward for tomorrow and enjoy whatever it is that life grants. and this part of forever that i am spending with her will always be with me. and when i am all gray haired and wrinkled, i know that the way i look at her will never change. she is the best gift i have received for the 18 years i have lived and the coming years that i will. i just really hope that she'll continue to allow me to love her...

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carpe diem, my friends. everything will turn out right.

Edited by: Warduke at: 12/12/02 10:00:02 pm

[silverdragon219]

I have been having a relationship with a girl for about 10 months now and when we first started going out i didnt mean it to get this serious.....(who does) and i fell in love with her in everyway possible.....i knew she had a boyfriend and she told me that it isnt really cheating if its the same sex....i had my doubts and desided to stay...She loves me and told me she wanted to marry me...i cried.....i cant believe it! but anyhow back to my problem, she says the only reason she is going out with him is for show,so her mom wont find out about her lesbian ways.....but she says she cant break up with him....she loves him in her own way, she told me....but she is IN LOVE with me.....and she keeps telling me that time will tell...that the goddess will work it out...i do trust her..but its killing me...in a lot of ways....i cant stand me going over and hanging out with them, seeing her arms around him..and it makes me sick...she says she doesnt let him touch her..because she is not attracted to him.....i dont know what to do.....i feel lost and at times alone..but i love her so much..i cant even imagine moving on.....am i being selfish?...i just need some advice...

[dark dyke]

first off i just took an hour and read every post in this thread and i think this is with out a doubt the greatest group of people i have ever talked to. i want to share my story... although it is not the best, it taught me a lot. Well I'm 16 now, when i was 14 i met this girl named Anna, and we got to be close. well her parents were hard core Christians and her mom was nuts. she was schizophrenic and in and out of institutions her whole life. well after about 2 months her mom and her got into a fight and her mom kicked her out of her house. she came to live with me, we had been dating already at that point. well we lived together for like 8 months and everything was kick ass... then her mom takes her back, she comes out to her mom in the context of not wanting to leave me and her mom has her put away.



we deal like that for another month or so and then i get this letter from her which is 3 pages about how she couldn't live with out me. a week later i find out from her brother that she slit her wrists with our bloodletting knife, which i didn't even know she had.



that was about 4 months ago. I blame myself for it. and i miss her so bad sometimes. but the last great moment we had together that i can remember was watching Buffy, and talking about how we wanted to be just like Willow and Tara *sob* and i so identify with post Tara willow, afraid and blaming herself.



yea... that's it

[Jimmi Magnus]

Dark Dyke, listen closely: It's not your fault. Hear me? You're not responsible. Don't even think that, and don't let anyone try to tell you this. Because it's not true! What happened was not because of something you did.



I wish I could write something that would help you a lot, and take all the pain and emptiness away. Sadly I cannot.

But my heart and thoughts go out to you all the same.

[silverdragon219]

Dark Dyke: o baby i am so sorry that happened to you! i wish that i could help......your story is a sad one..but you should remember it isnt your fault..there is nothing you could have done to prevent this horrible event......The goddess has her reasons.....and your girl is out of her torment...soo sad it touched me ...hope you have a better time ahead of you hun!

[Vampivy]

Dark Dyke, Sweetheart I wish I knew the words that would ease your pain. I like Jimmi and Silverdragon cannot stress how much this is not your fault. My thoughts are with you and just know that you are not alone. As difficult as it may be at times try to always think of those things that make you happy and smile. Never lose hope.



Patty

[Patches]

Dark Dyke, such sadness in your words. I know it's only words in cyberspace hon, but it's not your fault, it really isn't and you shouldn't be trying to deal with this alone.



I'm guessing you're still in school, and don't know how out you were about your relationship with Anna. If you have a positive support guidance counsellor at your school, please talk with her/him. If school's a bad scene, contact your local women's centre and go talk with someone. If neither of these are an option, then contact the LGBT group at a college near you or if there's an AIDS organization in your town, they should be able to give you info and help dealing with this. If you and Anna were playing (and it sounds like you were), then you might try the LGBT or local AIDS networks groups first. They should be able to put you in contact with someone knowledgeable in the scene who may better understand where you're coming from at the beginning.



We can't help how we feel about people, emotions are a strange thing and sometimes, for some people the shit is just too much. Sometimes, no matter how much we love someone, we can't be inside their heads, we can't make everything perfect and we can't make their pain go away. All we can do is love them and it doesn't matter what your sexual identity is, there's no greater gift you can give someone than to love them unconditionally. Anna's family should have known this - their only responsibility was to love her unconditionally and they chose not to, and no matter how much you willed it, they didn't accept her for who she was, but you did and that's important.



You loved Anna and your love was a marvellous gift to have given her. Whatever it was that pushed her so far into the darkness, where the pain was so deep that she felt no hope, you have to know, it wasn't you she was trying to hurt and her actions weren't your fault. Guilt is a terrible thing, and I think right now, you're taking a lot of it on yourself and you shouldn't. Cry for her, cry for yourself, howl at the moon but go beyond the pain and heal your soul and don't try to do it alone. Please go and talk with someone who can help you understand and help you heal.



Patches

[skittles]

Dark Dyke, as everyone has said, this is not your fault in any way, shape or form.



not. at. all.



The choice that Anna made was her choice and I feel sure that she would never have blamed you at all. And you should not allow anyone to blame you for her suicide. You are not at fault. Not at all. She made a choice that she thought was best for her at that time. Many people can't see any way out of a bad situation than suicide and that is very very sad. But it is not your fault.



Anna loved you. Remember that always. Hold that thought close to you & let it comfort you. Your memories of her and how you honor her name are your best way to healing the hurt of her death.



Hugs. Know that there are many kittens who have been where you are now & will listen endlessly.



Keep yourself strong. Believe in yourself. Survive.

skittles



"And laying his finger aside of his nose, giving a nod, up the chimney he rose...

... And I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight, 'Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night!"

-- from A Visit from St. Nicholas, CCMoore

[kukalaka]

dark dyke:

Everything everybody said is completely true, so please don't blame yourself! It's all been said before, but it's really true: It's not your fault! Hope to see you around, you're right, people here are amazing. There will always be somebody to listen to you and give advice or maybe just cheer you up *hugs*





silverdragon219:

I'm not very good at giving advice as I always try too hard not to say something that might be wrong. I'm quite good at listening, but as that doesn't help you at all since you don't see me reading, I'll give it a try.



Actually, it's not very much of an advice, it's just what I think I would feel. I think it would be very hard for me to be with someone who is not out at all and doesn't show any signs of coming out either. It would be hard, but I'm pretty sure I could and would do it. But I really can't imagine this someone being with someone else, even if it's just show. It would kill me and I don't think I could stand it for very long. Being single doesn't mean you're gay. And I know I'd expect that much respect for me as that is what I see in it. So, I would be very hurt, but, truth be said, I don't really know what I'd do either.



No one can tell you what to do, just know, that people here care. Hugs to you, too!







Angie



P.S. slayer747: I'm so glad to hear all of this!

---

Wenn Du denkst, Du denkst, dann denkst Du nur, Du denkst, denn beim Denken der Gedanken kommst Du nur auf den Gedanken, daß das Denken der Gedanken ein gedankenloses Denken ist.

[silverdragon219]

kukalaka: Thank you for taking the time to read my story....and for the advice....it does hurt quite a bit, but then again i knew about him going into the relationship..but of course i didnt expect to fall for he as i have done..its is quite frustrating ..i have only been with her for a short time, compared to him..so what right do i have to ask her to be mine? i dont know...can i do that? Me and her are in love completely..i mean, we cant even go three days without seeing eachother..and if we had no phone.. ..i dont know what id do...i know that i am amoung very caring kittens here . huggs back!

[Insane Oasis]

hi all, *waves* I have come out to 4 people, 1 person, being my mother, I wished I hadn't, 2 people who have been very supportive, and the other one is a pathological liar and a bitch at her best. My mother, *sigh* when I sort of came out to her, I was frightened and confused about the whole thing, I told her I might be, and she dumped a whole lot of shite on top of me, saying things like "It's a phase," or "it's you psyche telling you to feel like this because you've always hang out with boys." and the one that makes me feel like a spec of dirt "you cant be , because your my daughter and for the fact that no one in our family has ever been gay, so you CANT be." The kicker is, that she said this after she said that I could tell her anything. Obviously, she was lying. My two friends have been absolutely supportive, and one has come out to me, (which made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside). I always have to hide my wallpaper from my mom and step-father because they are both turning out to be homophobic. My brother is suspicious but he is accepting it, though I haven't even told him, my real father once asked me if I was going to get a girlfriend anytime soon, after spitting out my soda, and blushing like a tomato, I told him no. He then proceeded to tell me, that if I was gay/straight/bi or anything he would be accepting of it. But if I told him, (which I'm going to do when I go to his house for Xmas) I think he will be the most supportive, next to my step-mom.



I just kind of wish, you know, that I was able to tell my mom that I am, and that i have feelings for a girl, and ask her about what I should do, like I would if i was crushing on a guy. She means the world to me, and I don't know what I would do if she kicked me out. Sorry for the rant, just you know, needed to get it off my chest, and you guys are really wonderful to talk to.

99 pages of fic on the board, 99 pages of fic, you take some smut, and post it up....err.. 100 pages of fic on the board?

[dark dyke]

thank you guys so much for everything... it's just, I know it was not my fault... it just hurts so bad... all the time, it's like i have a gaping maw in my chest that will never close up... ya know? I don't know how better to explain it to you guys. but thank you for being a supportive bunch... I wonder what Jos would think if he knew that his charictors have brought people together like us.



Peace, Love and hair grease,

Morgan AKA the magical Dark dyke!

[skittles]

yes, it hurts. and like all "hurts" it will take time to heal. give yourself that time. remember that people (& kittens) care about you. be strong within yourself.



I don't know how much this will help, but try to remember that those who are "mean" or "hatefilled" to you, are also human, and are not perfect. that doesn't excuse their actions, but helps to understand them a little better. also realize that people "lash out" at things they themselves are trying to hide &/or for the same reasons they are hurting others. sorta like, "well, I can't do that, so no one else can either!!"



{{hugs}}

skittles



"And laying his finger aside of his nose, giving a nod, up the chimney he rose...

... And I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight, 'Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night!"

-- from A Visit from St. Nicholas, CCMoore

[silverdragon219]

Insane Oasis: Coming out was a terrible experience for me to...my parents were horrified and my mom told me i was disgusting...but after that she got used to the idea and now they are very supportive..i wish you luck in telling the rest of your family. Blessed Be!

[Repost Moderator]

Originally posted by jamboree



I don’t know if this is right place to ask, but how we definite a person is lesbian or straight or bi, it depends on her past or future or both? If a girl been with men before but then want to be with women and no plan go back to boystown, is this making her straight to lesbian or straight to bi since she had experiences with both men and women? Also how if she doesn’t care back to boystown but it never happened, will that the same? Thanks.www.ezboard.com/intl/aeng...smile.gif" />

[neta]

I need some advice...or maybe just to vent. I've noticed over the past two months that my friends are avoiding me. I have the group of core friends that do everything together and they all just stopped calling and asking me to do things with them and when I do see them and talk to them they are all really short with me and really unfriendly. I happen to catch one of my friends online other day a IMed her to say hi how you doing which eventually led her to tell me that she had some personal issues with me. Those issues being that she felt that I lied to all my friends and she felt betrayed specifically because when I realized I was gay I didn't tell anyone right away. I continued to remain in the closet...deep in the closet but eventually told everyone and at first it seemed they accepted it. I explained to them all why I didn't come out till I did and everyone seemed ok with it. This same friend was the first friend I did tell and she helped me tell everyone one else. Now a significant time has passed...a year and a half to two years and now she says that she has these personal issues with me and she is influencing my other friends...my support group. I once again talked to her about my reasons...some being fear of losing one of my jobs, friends, family and the threat of violence against myself. To which she denied that non of that would ever happen. I tried to tell her that gays have no civil rights protection where we live and stuff like that does indeed happen. I am just so mad about this situation because she is making comments about my character that are really off base and I keep thinking that who does she think she is telling me how and when I should come out. I don't know how to fix this situation or if I even want to because she is making it apparent that she really doesn't accept me for who I am...anyway...anybody got any advice on how to handle this situation?

[UnrealisticExpectations]

My whole family, from tippy top to bitty bottom, are all Baptist (Christians). I recently came out to my brother and he told me that I think I am gay due the internet influencing me. He also told me that he knew some guy who's dentist knows someone who was gay but changed (No, I'm not making this up) that he would put me in contact with him. Then...here's the kicker... he told me that he would support me as long as it fits his beliefs.



On a different occasion I told my neices, who are older than me, that I'm gay and one of them actually told me that I can't be because I'm not "manly" and I don't have mannerisms. What the hell is that?



Then my mother, who suprisingly knew before I told her(a typical reaction to my being gay is "oh my God, I never would have known"), has a foot that likes to live in her mouth. Case and point, when I told her I wanted to get a picture of W/T blown up for my wall, she said that it was "disgusting". She told me that I could either have gay friends or straight friends but not both(Something about straight girls not wanting to be friends with lesbians), gay relationships have no commitment, I'll never be happy... She wants me to stay in the closet. And she told me that when I do get a g/f that I'll have to spend the holidays with her family.... and the list goes on.



My dad asked me, "Are you a fruit?" Nuf said.



I just do not understand why I cannot have just ONE supportive family member that I can talk to. And it's hell on my religious beliefs... *sigh*

[slayer747]

neta and UnrealisticExpectations,



first of all, i want you guys to know that i am hugging you both right now.



and as for your situations, know that sometimes, it happens that the people we expect to understand us the most could be the same ones that will greatly disappoint us when times such as yours (coming out) comes. and hard as it could be, we cannot force things and dictate othe people's feelings and cannot control their opinions. just try to give it time. they might be on the state of denial and try to remind yourselves that you also went through this thing that they are going through now. try to be understanding because, heck, it took us a lot of patience to come to accept being gay ourselves. i know it is not reason enough for them to make life sem harder for us but such is the way of the world sometimes.



now as for your friends, neta, aside from giving it time you might need to let go for a while. if they are homophobic to an extent or have some "issues" with it you can do no more but try to be patient and let them know that you haven't change. that you are still the same person that they have come to know and accept as their friend, only now, you are not keeping a big part of you from them. give them time to come to terms with the situation.



as for the family, i give you the same advice, UnrealisticExpetations. also, give them the idea that you are okay with yourself and that their advice to you is appreciated to an extent but that will not determine the person that you want to become. and of couse, the kittens are always family and we can never be more proud of you.



i think that's all.



and oh, dark dyke: sweetie i feel for you and it is not your fault. ok? i pray for you.



kukalaka, glad that my post made you glad. thanks and take care.



always,

Tiffany

part of forever is better than none

[xita]

UnrealisticExpectations, how long has it been since you told them? Sometimes it takes time. None of my family members were cool with it and now while with most we don't talk about it, everyone is cool. My brother went from telling me "white people did this to you," to inviting me and my gf everywhere. He is very supportive. My sister went from denying my sexuality and being homophic to making sure I was legally responsible for her children in case anything happened to her and her husband. It took me years to become comfortable with my sexuality, family members often need as much time. Good luck though because sometimes they never come around.

-----------------------------------

En un mundo de ilusión yo estaba desahuciado, yo estaba abandonado.

Vivía sin sentido, pero llegaste tú. -
Mana

[UnrealisticExpectations]

Tiffany, thank you for the hug and advice.



Xita, I came out to my parents and my nieces three years ago. I came out to my brother a couple months ago.



It's hard... sometimes it feels like more than I can take. I understand that they need time to adjust but in the mean time they have a habit of making me feel like crap. I can't really express how much it hurts to know that not one person in my family supports me. And to tell the turth, I don't have much hope of time doing anything to help them be more supportive. There's no way they will ever support something that goes against what they believe is right.

[slayer747]

UnEx,

don't mention it. i'm glad to be of service...

part of forever is better than none

[jacki]

I have come out to all of my friends and I'm lucky because they have all been really supportive but I feel really guilty because I haven't told my parents yet. I wanted to tell them first but I was too scared. Quite a lot of people know that I'm gay and I'm afraid that someone will tell them before I get the chance to. I've put a lot of pressure on myself to do this but I don't think I'm ready. Does anyone think I should wait to tell them?

[slayer747]

jacki,



it really depends if you're ready enough to tell them. but if you are unsure (which is probably the case) i suggest you try testing the waters first. say, for example, you are watching MTV and TATU's "all the Things She Said" pops up on the show, and your parents happen to be there, observe their reactions as they see the two girls kiss. or you know, ask some questions about what they think of the video or the idea or the video nonchalantly. start from there. if you get the impression that they are really against it, then maybe you should wait. but if they say they're cool about it, don't jump right into the act of dropping the bomb. be sure that you already have the enough hints that they are okay with it before you do. and in the course of time, if they notice that you are curious, they might also get the impression that you are hinting something to them and that will make them think about the situation.



now, if your parents ask you if you are gay, unless you really are confident enough, then say that you are. if you are still apprehensive, ask them what if you are, would it change a thing... or stuff like that.



so start form there. i hope i was able to help you in a way.



always,

Tiff

part of forever is better than none

[jacki]

Thanks Tiff, that makes a lot of sense. I've decided to wait to tell them, maybe when I'm feeling more confident. Testing the waters sounds like a good idea, least then I'd know what the next step would be. Who knows maybe they've already guessed, I hadn't thought about that

[Minn]

Well I came out about 5 years ago with mixed results every time I go to a new school its the same some people are cool with me being different others tell rumors or avoid me. For the most part my family is on a if we don't talk about it it doesn't happen kick. my mother while I know she knows has never talked with me about it. She accepts that I'm wiccan but the lesbian thing she can't handle. the closest she has ever come to talking about it was to a friend of mine when she said she didn't care who I was with as long as I was happy. I have a brother who would kill me if he found out and two most likely know but don't talk about it. my best friend who is also my first ex is funny cause she always says that I should stay bi because it keeps my options open even though 9 out of 10 people she is interested in are women. I started a web page when I was 21 to try to "help" people who were going through similar things to me like figuring out that your bi/lesbian but then I realized it never reached anyone so I haven't added much to it in a year.

well that is all I wanted to say kitties...

[amberfan]

Minn,



I've been really toying with starting a web page of my own to help teenagers dealing with the confusion and fear of realizing they are gay/bi, and the way others react when they find out.



I'd really be interested in checking out your website if you'll tell me where to find it.



Thanx

[sprhrgrl]

Goforit, Amberfan.



I just wrote a paper on queer youth activism in the high school. I'm thinking of writing a book, at some point, because there are absolutely zero books on the subject. Lots on college, but none on stuff in the high school.

sprhrgrl.com

counting*stars

racism=sexism=homophobia

The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off. – Gloria Steinem

[Minn]

well I hope its ok for me to post the link here I'm really not sure but its

http://www.willowwolf.com

a lot of my stuff has been put into archives but its all still there right down to the journal entries I wrote while I was figuring out who I was



~minn!~

[LurkMuch]

Okay, so this Friday MAJORLY sucked. I was upset about some things regarding a relationship (the nature of which is unclear - not really) and thought I'd entice my mom into going on an impromptu trip to Vegas so I could forget about things for awhile.



Bad choice.



She knew something was wrong and kept pushing me until I told her. She gave me the 'It's worse not knowing what's wrong and worrying' guilt trip.



So, I told her what had been going on. She was seemingly cool with it the first day. She mainly said that it bothered her but wanted me to be happy.



The second day sucked. We had several conversations. Most of them resulting in her crying. She said that she didn't want to say too much because she didn't want to hurt me.



The third day she told me she didn't know if she could handle it. She said that she was going to do some research and talk to someone who is knowledgable about human sexuality to get some facts. See, I've come to the conclusion that I'm about a 1 on the Kinsey Scale. That is mostly heterosexual, but some incidence of attraction to the same sex.



She doesn't think that I'm approaching the relationship that I talked to her about with enough information. I told her that I had researched and come to a conclusion that I'm comfortable with, but I don't think she's satisfied.



It seems that she wants to come up with scientific evidence in an attempt to get me to 'rethink' my sexuality and the relationship that I told her about. To which I said, 'You can show me scientific evidence, and it wouldn't change how I feel.'



I told her not to worry because it didn't look like the relationship was going to happen (in realistic terms) anyway, but she seems determined.



She didn't talk to me much today. She didn't bring it up at all in fact, and I'm relieved. I'm tired of talking about it and I have other stresses. So I don't need her inability to deal with this on top of everything else.



I'm emotionally drained from the last week or so, and can't continue at this pace.

Edited by: LurkMuch at: 3/11/03 6:20:19 am