The Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans/Questioning/Issues Thread

[3peanuts]

Great H.B.!!!



If she doesn't fall within the next two weeks, try the old reliable weapon: stalking! Just kidding...



I'm proud of you, you have guts. Courage and pride are fascinating. Always. If she's smart, she'll be amazed by you...

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[maudmac]

Check you out now, brave hells bells! Congratulations! I'm really glad you did it. I know it must've been scary, but don't you feel better now? I hope it works out really well. We're rooting for you.

---

Pussy crack corn...and I don't care! -- Margaret Cho

[AmberMaclay]

I have been in a gay relationship for several years now, but am still really confused about my sexuality. I grew up feeling strange as I really didnt understand what the feelings I was having about some girls. I think it started when I was about 12. I couldnt understand why I wasn't feeling anything when I was with the guys that I went with. Anyway at about 18 I had a really good friendship with this girl, I use to go stay at her house all the time coz she had a double bed, and it meant we got to sleep together, sleep being the word, but we would cuddle up and hold hands all night, but that was as far as it if went, but I never felt happier than when I was in her arms, she must have figured out what was happening and all of a suddened totally rejected me and started dating guys that she had once said she would never touch. Anyway, I had NO idea what was happening, and it wasnt till later I understood it. I was a Christian, so being gay was not even a possibility.

When I was 25 I met my current GF, we moved in together but I still WASN'T gay, after about a year I finally was able to admit that I was gay, I finally told my family about it last year (5 years later), but now I just find myself not being able to accept the fact that I am gay, I feel so guilty about it. I love my GF, I really do but I just feel guilty about it.



I have felt so alone with this whole thing for so long, we have no gay friends so havent been able to talk about it at all. I just wish that I had found this board a long time ago, you guys seem really nice.



Why do I feel so guilty about it, why cant I accept it?

[kiwi6969]

Hi there Amber *waves*

welcome to the kitten, I know how you are feeling....*hugs*



Just remember there are some great kittens out there who will be there for you...*puts her hand up* I'll be here..







kiwi

we are all lips in life sucking on one big nipple ~ kiwi6969

[Gatito Grande]

AmberMaclay, you didn't say how your family responded to your coming out to them, but given that they were probably (at least in part) responsible for you thinking that, as "a Christian . . . being gay was not even a possibility," I can imagine.



Is that what you think? That you can't be (faithfully) Christian and (commitedly) gay? If so, that's probably the source of your guilt, and why you having difficulty in accepting the latter.



It isn't true, AM: you *can* be both Christian and gay! Any so-called "Christian" who tells you otherwise doesn't know what he or she is talking about. They're only giving you their own *prejudices*, not the Word of God. The Bible has a lot to say against all kinds of irresponsible (and/or *exploitive*) sex, but nothing against loving intimacy between persons of the same sex in a committed relationship.



Jesus, in particular, says a ton of stuff against *unjust and hypocritical* people (especially those do those sins while posturing as religiously righteous), but again: nothing against those in same-sex relationships. Whether those relationships were simply unknown at the time, or actively accepted, the point remains: the Bible says nothing against homosexuality as we now understand it---and nothing against *responsible, non-exploitive* homosexual relationships.



The Guilt Monster is terrifying, AM: I'm still fighting it myself. Remember, though, that guilt ultimately springs from an illusion. Don't let Biblically-ignorant, morally-hypocritical homophobes convince you otherwise!



Here's a good site for more faithful gay Christian info:

www.whosoever.org/index.shtml



GG Keep the (queer) faith, AM! Out



Adding: gag, even as I'm writing this, some bozo "ex-gay" so-called Christian is spouting the same ol'- same ol' BS on CNN. Don't believe the lies!

[hells bells]

thanks kittens for all the words of support! lol..i did feel a little willow-esque when i went up to her.....i just RAMBLED on without even giving her a chance to say anything lol. all i remember hearing her saying was a "yes?" to my "hello!" lol. Come to remember she lokoed shocked and amused lol..i'm laughing now hahaha...and she just stared at me with her mouth agape lol. hehehe...i can now look back at this and go "i had the courage to do that!" lol.



Amber *waves too*...i feel so bad for you i wish i can say i know how you're feeling but i can't so just a big *HUG* to you. Maybe you can think of it this way: something that feels this good can't be bad can it? lol.

[AmberMaclay]

Wow thanks for the kind words.



My parents have NEVER said anything to me either way about it, I dont really have a lot to do with it them.



ALL my friends from the church I went to have totally abandoned me. I have been told how evil, and wrong it is, I am, that I should just be forgetting about it, be straight. I have been told that it's wrong, but we still love you - but have never spoken to me since.



Im not sure that the Christainty thing is important, all though I guess I would kinda like to feel that God doesnt think that Im evil.



Oh I dont know really, at the moment, I feel like there is no way out of this feeling. I just feel like shit.

[hells bells]

o chickie don't feel like shit *another big hug*..lol...those hugs aren't helping are they? maybe a dancing banana will help? lol





:o)



if it's any comfort about the whole christian thing...lol...some classmate of mine when i was 7 actually told me she'd go to heaven when she died cos she was a christian and that i'd go to hell when i died cos i wasn't.



LOL



absurd much?



hehehehe

[Gatito Grande]

Hmmm, AM, it's possible you're fighting *yet another monster* I'm familiar with: depression.



If "feeling like shit" is starting to seem normal to you, then don't wait: have yourself medically checked out ASAP. There's different kinds of therapies which can make a Big Improvement in your life. Maybe it's related to being gay (and/or your family, and/or your former "Christian" friends, etc.etc.), and maybe it isn't. But don't feel like you have to settle on living in pain, regardless.



{{{AmberMaclay}}} . . . and I promise you: God does love you.



GG Be kind to yourself, sweetie. Out

Edited by: Gatito Grande at: 6/18/03 6:39 pm

[Wytchi Grrl]

AmberMaclay, I really feel for you. I don't know if my words can be of comfort but I just really hope you can come to terms that being gay isn't evil in anyones eye's that counts.

I know your friends deserting you is so so awful but at the end of the day is lying to yourself worse? I suppose you have to consider this closely. Since being open about my sexuality, any problems I've had, I've had an amazing response from anyone I've spoken in the GLBT community, it truly amazing.

So there is a whole world out there that will support you in the place where others don't but I don't think you want to abandon your faith and I commend you on that. As someone has already pointed out, there are many sites/communities/people who understand being true to yourself doesn't equal being evil.

I am agnostic so really can't comment to much on Christianity but I was raised Anglo Catholic, Even when I was certain of God I could never believe that he/she/it could deem anyone to hell.



Whatever you do, I hope you can come to terms with yourself and even more so that the people who love you can too.

take much care

Wytchi



Feel free to contact me if you want to talk x

---

Witchcraft Grrls

Sassy Eggs

[AmberMaclay]

Thanks for all your kind words, I have had a really hard day of it today, Just wondering if maybe just denying my gay nature and just being straight is the easiest way to go. I had a hard time with my feelings when I was straight, but nothing like how I feel now, it was easier to cope with the other feelings.



I am just so confused about it all.

[kitkat3NY]

AMBERMCLAY- I am a Christian, I really love the Lord and i'm true to my faith. I just came out about 9mths ago and my family (very strong Christian family) all told me that i'm full of demons and that i'm going straight to hell. I avoid this conversation w/ them because I don't believe it. They have no Biblical backing to their points, they just keep telling me what "they" think is right. I love them and i'm close to them but I don't discuss the subject of me being gay because they are never going to let go of their ignorance.



Anyhoo, there is a nice communittee of Christian lesbian on http://www.Planetout.com just look up spiritual and you should see christian lesbians.



HTH



Kathy

[3peanuts]

I know how you feelin' Amber...I've been through it too. You have all my support. The best advice I can give you is: respect yourself, and your love, it's the best part of you.



Hugs

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[kiwi6969]

I agree with peanuts......



you have to love yourself so you can understand yourself....*looks confused*...anyway I came to terms with who I was after I started to love the person I am and not who I was.......The best thing I have ever done...Yes it hurt and people got hurt but I did it for me.......anyway I hope that helps and you know I'm here for you...don't you ? *hugs*











kiwi

we are all lips in life sucking on one big nipple ~ kiwi6969

[AmberMaclay]

Thanks for the advise and words of concern.



I understand what you are saying, but it's going to be easier said than done, I really dont feel like Im worthy of love, not from anyone, especially from myself.



I think I understand more about me being gay etc, but....oh I dont know..... I know that I am gay, I can't change that, but Im still having trouble with the way I feel about it all.



Yes Kiwi, I know that you are there.

[3peanuts]

You are right Amber...it's never easy.



I was going to kill myself when I was 16. Now I am out, loud and proud.



Everything changes in one's life. Everything.



And for the "I'm not worthy of loving": I should whack you with a slipper for having said something so stupid about someone so special...I mean you, silly.



May I send you a kiss?

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[LostInEcstasy]

Hey kitties!



Do you guys think sexual orientation is based solely of sexual (or physical) attraction? Because the thing is, while I've been physically attracted to both men and women, I've only ever been emotionally attracted to women. So I've been confused for a long time about whether I'm actually bi or gay. While I think Ewan McGregor is pretty darn sexy, I've never met a guy I felt emotionally intimate with or could imagine falling in love with. But then again, I've only been in love with one person. So maybe she just happened to be a woman??



I came the the decision a while ago that I would just stop worrying about this, and trust that I would figure things out eventually. But I really want to come out to my mom. She and I are really close, and I consider one of my best friends (cheesy I know) and I really hated keeping my relationship a complete secret from her. I guess I feel like I should KNOW before I tell her. So it's not just hey mom, I'm gay... or maybe bi... or really I'm just confused.



Any opinions?

[AmberMaclay]

Thanks for the kiss 3peanuts.



I have tried to kill myself 3 times, as I said to someone the otherday, if I try again, I really need to find a better method. Not that I think I will try again.

Quote:

---

And for the "I'm not worthy of loving": I should whack you with a slipper for having said something so stupid about someone so special...I mean you, silly.

---

I really dont feel special, not at all. Somedays I do feel ok, and I've been talking to some great people, but I feel guilty for laying this on them, for wasting their time.



I'm sure that one day, I will get there.

Edited by: AmberMaclay at: 6/21/03 5:11 pm

[3peanuts]

It depends on what is your idea of being "special": everyone's special in his/her own way. Does it seem rethorical?



If you're trying to be the super-hero special thing...well it does work only if you have muscles and a very short d*ck (that's why Superman wears a tight costume without feeling embarassed).



Otherwise you can feel a great satisfaction in just being what you are, who you are. Don't be bad to that lil person inside of you who is trying to just feel happy. Don't be bad to yourself: okay, I know the good ol' angst feeling is always kinda alluring, but believe me, it really gets better if you stop thinking about yourself and just begin taking care of yourself.



And yes: I do think you're silly, 'cause you have NO right to hurt yourself. You have a responsibility in loving yourself, it is the only self you have. And I've never met a human being unworthy of love.



Oh I know you're thinking:"What does she know? She knows nothing 'bout me, what I'm being through, another one trying to give lessons!".

If you think so you're right. But not wise.

But still: would beat a kitten just because it's not wise? On the other hand: would you just be patient and let it learn at its own pace?

Would you just be patient and understanding with yourself the same way you would certainly be with a kitten? Anyway, you have the same rights of a kitten. For sure!

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[AmberMaclay]

Thanks 3Peanuts, I have had a pretty hard weekend, and coming in and reading that gave me a little hope that things will be ok, put a little smile on my heart.



So thanks.

[3peanuts]

Amber: , and (why not?) a little



Take care...



-3p-

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[ArielStarr]

*takes a deep breath* Okay, I'm a bit nervous so bear with me. I kinda started this in another thread a while ago, but have been too nervous to try again. Anyway....

I'm not really sure where to start.. I've never really questioned my orientation until recently. I have so little experience when it comes to relationships (as in none) and I always thought that was just because I hadn’t met the right person, I’m one of those naïve girls who believe in ‘the one’. But lately I’ve begun to wonder whether it’s because I’ve been looking in the wrong place (i.e. looking for a guy rather than a girl). Or maybe not that I’ve been looking in the wrong place, just not looking everywhere, if that makes sense??? So then I started to wonder if I was gay/bi, but that I was just too scared too admit it, or maybe I just assumed I was straight because that’s what society deems ‘normal’, whatever that is. I can understand what LostInEcstasy is saying about being physically attracted to guys but emotionally attracted to girls. I don’t seem to understand guys and I mostly feel really uncomfortable around them. I am attracted to them, but I can’t figure them out - maybe that’s not so unusual!!! And girls? I get on really well with them, all my friends are female, as for attraction? Not yet, but I wouldn‘t rule it out, maybe I haven't met the right girl yet…. my head is starting to spin a bit now...Sorry I’m babbling a bit here and going round in circles, did I mention I was a bit confused?? Maybe I’m just lonely, I don’t know.. I’m probably just making something out of nothing, but it feels good to talk about it. Thanks for letting me get it off my chest, I know it seems kinda small compared to what some of the other kitties have had to deal with.



Ariel xxx



P.S. I do have a bit of a thing for hands though…….!!!!!

[Gatito Grande]

ArielStarr, you're not alone. There's nothing wrong w/ you for being confused, and don't pressure yourself (or let others pressure you) to figure it out all at once. Just live w/ the ambiguity, as tough as that may be sometimes. Everything comes in time . . .



I myself am extremely confused by the Human Male. I've lately been trying on the ID of "lesbian" (a post-bisexual lesbian), and the reactions I have to extremely, um, "well put-together" males seem to be incorrect on two fronts. If I want to do him, then I'm not a very good lesbian, am I? And if I want to be him, then I'm back to being trans, and still not a very good lesbian! So I figure, best not think about them at all . . .



You're probably younger than me (most Kittens are!), AS, and I still figure I "have the rest of my life" to figure this out. So do you. Take it easy!



GG Or if I could just be male part of the time---that's what I'd do if I had the magicks! Out

[Iamyouknowyours]

Amber McClay - Please know you are not alone in this. 10% of the population is gay, perhaps more even, who knows? It was very brave for you to come out. I still haven't (to my parents, my friends know), and I applaud you on your courage. I know it will take even more courage for you to deal with the narrow minds of people who are afraid of what they don't understand. There is nothing against homosexuality in the bible. Many translations don't even mention the subject at all. The bible also teaches unconditional love of your fellow man and not to judge others. I'm not religious myself, but I have to agree that those are good values for people of all belief systems to have. Your friends and family are just confused. When they look at you they see such goodness out of what they've been blinded into believing is bad. Also keep in mind that many of the people who are the most homophobic are that way because they are insecure in their own sexuality. But I hope that those who love you will come to celebrate who you are and the way you love. It just may take some time. Or even a lot of time.



But anyone who dismisses you based on your sexual orientation is someone you are, in the long run, better off not having in your life. As hard as that is to believe, THIS IS THEIR LOSS. Love is for better or worse, or in this case different. You don't need to feel guilty for laying a burden on them, because you're not. You are just being honest. THEY should be the one's feeling guilty for making someone they love, who loves them "feel like shit" for being true to themselves. You have NOTHING to feel guilty about. Period.



I think it may be a good idea for you to get some councling. Because it sounds like you are feeling depressed and you have tried to harm yourself. You don't need to feel that way. No one should have to deal with those feelings, especially not alone. I'd also recommend maybe finding a gay-straight alliance or PFLAG or stonewall near you. Since you don't know many other gay couples, perhaps meeting other people in the similar situations would help you to see that what you are feeling is natural and normal. You are not alone. Not even close.



Email me any time if you need someone to talk to.



eltonsgod@aol.com



Arielstar -

It's ok to be confused. Every time I think I have things all figured out, I tend to run across something that throws me back into the confusion. And maybe there isn't anything wrong with that. Wait, scratch that maybe. There's nothing wrong with that. I have this theory (which is sort of controversial, but it's what I think so I'll stick by it unless I change my mind) that sexual orientation may be a sliding scale instead of three neat and tidy little categories. Some people are on the extreme end of the scale (gay or straight) and some people fall right in the very center (bisexual), but I see no reason why others can fall anywhere in-between. The main thing is that you love who you love and if you find someone to love who loves you back, then good for you! You're better off than most.

"Yeah. You learn her source, and, uh, we'll introduce her to her insect reflection. Um ... that, that was funny if you, um, studied Taglarin mythic rites... and are a complete dork." - Tara "Oh, then how come Xander didn't laugh?" - Riley

[3peanuts]

When it comes to self-definition I tend to be really confused...I've had no doubt about my sexuality since I was three: I liked girls and women very much and not at all guys, so I just waited the right time to learn that a word existed to describe what "a girl who loves girls" is. The self-definition was simple: as much as I definitevely don't like labels, I must admit they are helpful in forming a precise idea of what social environment you belong to, that is important 'cause humans are social animals. But being able to say "Okay I'm a lesbian whatever it means" wasn't the same thing as accepting it.

I think this is because of the next part of the sentence: "I love women, therefore I can be considered a lesbian, everybody around me says lesbians are evil, so I'm evil too, so I shouldn't like women, I should like men, but I like her...arrrgh."



If society didn't form our minds to the concept that we are evil, probably it wouldn't be so upsetting choosing a lesbian label for ourselves, or just a bi label or no label at all. We need labels to find our place in this world, and if the label means we are destined to be neglected for life, well it's kinda uneasy, isn't it?



I wouldn't refuse my label, I'd work so that it would mean "good" tomorrow, and become not necessary the day after tomorrow. Does it make any sense?

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[WyrdOne8]

Okay, so here's the deal. I'm going to college in the fall and will be rooming with a good friend. She and I are close, but she doesn't know that I'm bi and has no idea that I'm thinking I'm probably gay. She knows that I've had some lesbian experiences, but she's either a bit dense or is pretending not to come to any conclusions from these. I'm not sure if I should tell her about my sexual identity muddle or if I should just wait until it actually becomes an issue...like, when/if I have a girlfriend. I don't think she's going to hate me or anything like that; I just don't know how she'd deal with us living together after this revelation. I think either way it's going to be awkward; it's basically just choosing the lesser of two evils. Any thoughts? Thanks.

-Meredith

[3peanuts]

My experience: I told my roommates about my sexuality after we became close enough and it was safe (we had become friends so there was no risk they would have kicked me out of the place).

I thought it was a matter of honesty: I couldn't stand the lying about boyfriends and stuff.

She already knows about your lesbian experiences and you are close already: I know it could feel uncomfortable having to share the room with somebody who doesn't know about you (I felt a liar, but that's just me).

So my advice is: tell her. Choose the right moment, that is the moment when you feel intimate enough with her to be totally open. Maybe, at first, she will feel embarassed, but you'll feel better and more at ease.

Btw, I know from experience that the relationship with roommates always improves when you come out of the closet with them: sincerity is reassuring, on the other hand feeling you are hiding something from them (her in your case) makes them suspicious and tense.

My two cents...

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[sam darls]

Hey amber, i've just been reading your post..and i totally agree with Iamyouknowyours, you are definitely not alone and we are all here for you..i'm having a lil trouble myself, i mean i'm so scared to tell my dad that i'm gay because of something that happened a few years ago..i'm scared he'll hate me. I just wanted to let you know that the kitten board is a great place to be and everyone is welcoming *hugs*..take care..love sammi xxx

[LostWithoutTara]

Amber - All of us Kittens are here for you. I'm sending big hugs out to you.



sam darls - I'm in a similar position. My dad's a complete 'phobe, although luckily(?) he's not a huge part in my life. Have you been able to tell anyone else? I'm in the situation where I know I have to tell my parents, but I feel that if I actually do it it'll open a big floodgate of questions and emotional outbursts that I really don't feel like I can handle.



Take care everyone

[sam darls]

Hey LostWithoutTara..Thank you..yeah, i have been lucky enough to be able to tell other people..and they've been supportive, especially when i first broke up with my girl, and i think my sister knows..but i'm still so scared. I agree with you, I know I have to tell, but I don't want all the emotional stuff that is definitely gonna come with it. . . I don't know what to do. take care, love sammi xx