Wives and Husbands - the Gay Marriage Thread

[savache27]

I’ve never posted on the board before, but I thought that article was incredible. I'm going to print it out an let my family read it.



I also wanted to comment on something Tiggrscorpio said:



“...it would be nice to have some straight people on our side”



I know the comment was directed toward your sister, but I just wanted to let you know that there are some straight people on your side (although I’m sure you didn’t need me to tell you that). I’m completely enraged by the fact that people are actually willing to support this act of discrimination. To me it is not even a question of whether you support same-sex marriage (which I do, although I don’t feel a distinction should have to be drawn—marriage should be marriage, an act of love and commitment, regardless of the couple’s gender).



The main issue here is equal rights—plain and simple. I fail to understand how people don’t see that, and how even if they do they are willing to ignore it because it simply does not affect their daily lives. I guess it’s easy to turn away when you’re not on the receiving end, but in my opinion if you can stand by and allow just one individual’s rights to be taken away, allow them to be told or to believe that they are less of a person, then you aren’t much of a person yourself and it probably won’t be long before you find yourself in a similar position.



This entire issue just really hurts my heart because it shouldn’t be an issue to begin with. Love is amazing and powerful and it’s terrible to see this much hate and backlash surrounding it. I know there is probably not much I can do, but if you’re looking for support then I’m definitely on board. If there is anything I can do help the cause just please let me know.



Shanna

[WebWarlock]

I few things.



WTJunkie that was a fantastic letter. I hope things work out in your family. I know how it can be with families.



Tiggrscorpio. This straight guy is on your side and is fighting.



Warlock

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Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

"Razzle, dazzle, drazzle, drone, time for this one to come home." - The Replacements, "Hold My Life"

[Tiggrscorpio]

Kittens are such wonderful people. Thank you Shanna for your beautiful post and thank you Tim for your continued support. I know there are so many more straight people out there fighting the good fight. Thank you, too.

[Ben Varkentine]

www.washingtonpost.com/wp...4Mar3.html

Ben



"Never be discouraged from being an activist because people tell you that you'll not succeed. You have already succeeded if you're out there representing truth or justice or compassion or fairness or love."

-- Doris 'Granny D' Haddock

[tyche]

If anybody wants to vote in a poll on the gay marriages in Oregon, here's one:

www.katu.com/news/news_poll_gay_marriage_pdx.asp

Yesterday, the poll was running at approx. 68% against gay marriage, so please vote if you have time. (I think it's one of those polls where you can only vote once.)

[crazyredlizard]

Hi kittens! Below is today's article about the mayor of New Paltz, NY. More weddings to come this Saturday, and my pals and I are going down to support the newlyweds and the young mayor, who's sticking his neck out for all of us.



Peace and Love from Woodstock,



Lizard





Mayor defiant after pleading not guilty in same-sex marriage case

By Paul Kirby , Freeman staff         03/04/2004



NEW PALTZ - A defiant Mayor Jason West pleaded not guilty on Wednesday to illegally performing same-sex weddings and vowed minutes later, before a wildly cheering throng, to marry more gay couples this weekend.



"I intend to go forward solemnizing these marriages on Saturday," the village leader said after pleading not guilty in Town Court to 19 misdemeanor counts of solemnizing a marriage without a license.



"This issue that is before us today is one of civil rights, is one of human rights, and an issue of basic human decency," said West, 26. "Our state Constitution requires equal protection under the law for all New Yorkers."



Hours earlier, state Attorney General Eliot Spitzer issued an opinion that state law does not allow same-sex marriages.



Ulster County District Donald A. Williams, who authorized the charges against West on Tuesday, said Wednesday night that if the mayor performs more same-sex weddings, he could face additional charges.



"The mayor of New Paltz is not above the law," Williams said.



Williams has said he does not wish to see the mayor jailed, but he said his office is researching whether West, who was elected last May, will be "automatically" removed from office if convicted.



Village Board member Robert Hebel, who on Tuesday spoke of trying to have West removed from office, said Wednesday that he will seek a temporary restraining order to stop West from marrying more same-sex couples.



Through it all, West appeared unfazed.



"For those who disagree with me, I would urge them to read our Constitution, because they have to reread it if they think it is illegal in this state to marry people," West said to loud cheers.



At issue in the criminal case against West is not that he presided over the weddings of 25 same-sex couples last Friday, but that he presided over weddings in which the couples did not possess valid New York marriage licenses.



Among West's supporters outside the Town Court/Village Hall building on Wednesday were people carrying signs with such slogans as : "Liberty and Justice for All: Go West" and "Viva La Revolution."



West's arraignment also drew a media horde a three-man brass band playing, among other tunes, "God Bless America" and "You Are My Sunshine."



But unlike last week, there was no visible contingent of West opponents inside or outside the courtroom on Wednesday.



West's attorney, Joshua Rosenkranz of New York City, said the mayor was being treated by law enforcement like an "ordinary criminal," and he called that treatment a "travesty."



Rosenkranz said Williams could have sought other ways to stop West, such as by seeking an injunction from a court or an executive order from Gov. George Pataki, an opponent of gay marriage.



"The district attorney did not consider any of these things and (decided) to go for the atom bomb of litigation tactics, a criminal proceeding," Rosenkranz said.



Williams responded that what West did "was wrong, and I believe it is criminal."



"This is not about me ... and it is not about a part-time mayor of New Paltz," Williams said. "It is about the law and our respect for the process of law."



Williams said West could have proceeded differently, perhaps via the legislative process or the judicial system, if he "truly" believes in his convictions and if his stand was not about "statewide and national recognition."



West has received national media attention since becoming the only municipal leader in New York - and only the second government leader in the country - to preside over gay weddings.



West arrived at the Town Court building just after 5 p.m. Wednesday, and a crowd of about 700 onlookers cheered as he entered. He was accompanied by Rosenkranz and a New Paltz lawyer, Andrew Kossover.



Inside the court, New Police Chief Raymond Zappone and eight officers stood guard.



The charges were not read, but Town Justice Jonathan Katz asked Rosenkranz: "Does your client wish to enter a plea at this time?"



"Yes," Rosenkranz answered.



"All right, and that is?" the judge said.



"Not guilty," West responded.



Zappone said West then was "processed" and that an arrest report was placed in a file. The mayor was not fingerprinted and he was released without bail.



West later strolled out a side door, raised his arms skyward and briskly walked to the front of Village Hall as a media gaggle followed and onlookers shouted, "Go, Jason, Go! Go, Jason, Go!"



Billiam van Roestenberg of Clintondale, a West supporter who was married by the mayor last Friday, defended the village leader.



"Jason supports family values. That is why he is doing this," van Roestenberg said. "Jason supports freedom. That is why he is doing this. He wants everyone to love and respect one another, love one another, and move on."



Katz instructed Rosenkranz to submit motions in the case by March 24. Rosenkranz is expected to file a motion asking that all the charges be dismissed.



©Daily Freeman 2004www.dailyfreeman.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11064039&BRD=1769&PAG=461&dept_id=74969&rfi=6

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[maudmac]

I do love Tom Tomorrow quite a lot.



This Modern World: A Brief History of Marriage in America

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I have no professional training. I already gave my best. I have no regrets at all.

[WebWarlock]

www.chicagotribune.com/ne...omo451-fea



Take the Tribune's poll

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Gay protesters take to street

County denies licenses; Mell's daughter arrested





By Gina Kim, Tribune staff reporter. Tribune wire services contributed to this report



March 5, 2004



Glenn Amoroso and Keith Charbonneau were ready to pay $30 for a marriage license Thursday. But when their request at the marriage-license bureau in the Cook County Building was denied, they and hundreds of others took to the streets of Chicago, giving voice to one side of the raging debate over same-sex marriages.



The protest was mostly peaceful and even festive at times. Police made one arrest, handcuffing and carting away the 35-year-old daughter of Ald. Richard Mell (33rd) and sister of Gov. Rod Blagojevich's wife Patty after she ran into Washington Street.



"I'm proud of my daughter," the alderman said of Deborah Mell. "I'm proud that when she has something she believes in, she stands up for it."



Nationally, the gay-marriage issue continued to stew. At least 100 couples lined up in Portland, Ore., for marriage licenses that were issued for a second day. The mayor of New Paltz, N.Y., said he will continue to conduct same-sex weddings even though he has been criminally charged. And Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) said he is worried the "wildfire" of same-sex marriages will spread throughout the country if Congress fails to pass a constitutional amendment banning the weddings.



Like Amoroso and Charbonneau, dozens of same-sex couples in New York City applied for marriage licenses and were denied in the country's most-populous city and the suburb of Nyack.



The Chicago rally began about noon in front of the Cook County Building, 118 N. Clark St., with activists holding signs including ones that read, "Marriage is a human right," and "Jesus said love thy brother." Clark Street became an ideological divide as about 50 anti-gay marriage activists read from Bibles over bullhorns and condemned homosexuality from the Daley Plaza across the street.



"This is sin in the eyes of God," said Rev. Shawn T. Cummings, a member of the Oakdale Covenant Church.



After several gay couples shared with the crowd the emotional and fiscal reasons they wanted to marry their partners, the gay-rights advocates marched chanting into the Cook County Building's marriage-license bureau.



Amoroso, 42, and Charbonneau, 32, asked for a marriage-license application. Instead, they were told same-sex marriages are illegal in Illinois and were handed a letter from Cook County Clerk David Orr thanking them for expressing their position on gay marriages and pledging support for the cause.



Amoroso said he and his partner would have saved $880 last year if they were able to file a joint income tax return. They also have had to write letters and hire attorneys to ensure that they can help each other in the event of an emergency.



"We just want the same things heterosexuals get just by putting two signatures on a piece of paper," he said.



Wanting more than a photocopied letter from Orr, the activists marched to the nearby Cook County Administration Building, 69 W. Washington St., and called for the county clerk to address the crowd.



Orr offered to meet with a group of 10 protesters in his office, but the gay-rights activists declined, saying they wanted him to meet with all his constituents, organizer Andy Thayer said.



As the protest began to wind down just after 1 p.m., Rick Garcia, the political director of Equality Illinois, a gay-rights group, spurned his usual self-proclaimed title of "suit-and-tie activist" and sat down with his legs crossed in the middle of Washington Street. After police carried him to the side of the road, about a dozen others tried to do the same, including Deborah Mell.



Mell, who ran past police lines and into the road, was tackled and handcuffed by two officers and put in the back of a police squadrol. She was charged with the misdemeanor of simple battery and a court date was set for April 28, said police spokesman Pat Camden.



"She lowered her head and shoulders and rammed into a lieutenant who was at the scene in a deliberate attempt to get onto the street so the protesters could obstruct traffic," he said. The police officer was not injured, Camden said.



Blagojevich, who respects his sister-in-law's views, believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman, he said in a statement.



After being told of his daughter's arrest, Mell came down to the protest and said he supported his daughter and her sexual orientation.



"Fifty years ago, people would be standing here because of a constitutional amendment against interracial marriage," Mell said. "Fifty years from now, people are going to be wondering what this was all about."



The protesters pledged to return to the Cook County Administration Building next Thursday at noon to demand that Orr grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples.





Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

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Others,



Latest Developments on Gay-Marriage Issue



Taking it to the street



ETA: Here is something I just thought of. All of the arguements against gay marriage can be used to also argue that divorce should be illeagal, throw that back on them.



Warlock

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Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

"Razzle, dazzle, drazzle, drone, time for this one to come home." - The Replacements, "Hold My Life"

Edited by: WebWarlock at: 3/5/04 7:44 am

[GODisTigger]

Dear President Bush,



Today you called upon Congress to move quickly to amend the US Constitution, and set in Federal stone a legal definition of marriage. I would like to know why.



In your speech, you stated that this Amendment would serve to protect marriage in America, which I must confess confuses me. Like you, I believe in the importance of marriage and I feel that we as a society take the institution far too lightly. In my circle of family, friends and acquaintances, the vast majority have married and divorced - some more than once. Still, I believe in marriage. I believe that there is something fundamental about finding another person on this planet with whom you want to build a life and family, and make a positive contribution to society. I believe that we need more positive role models for successful marriage in this country - something to counteract the images we get bombarded with in popular culture. When we are assaulted with images of celebrities of varying genres, be it actors, sports figures, socialites, or even politicians who shrug marriage on and off like the latest fashion, it is vitally important to the face of our nation, for our children and our future, that we have a balance of commitment and fidelity with which to stave off the negativity. I search for these examples to show my own daughter, so that she can see that marriage is more than a disposable whim, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.



As a father, I'm sure you have faced these same concerns and difficulties in raising your own daughters. Therefore I can also imagine that you must understand how thrilled I have been over the past few weeks to come home and turn on the news with my family. To finally have concrete examples of true commitment, honest love, and steadfast fidelity was such a relief and a joy. Instead of speaking in the hypothetical, I was finally able to point to these men and women, standing together for hours in the pouring rain, and tell my child that this is what its all about. Forget Britney. Forget Kobe. Forget Strom. Forget about all the people that we know who have taken so frivolously the pure and simple beauty of love and tarnished it so consistently. Look instead at the joy in the beautiful faces of Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon - 51 years together! I mean, honestly Mr. President - how many couples do you know who are together for 51 years? I'm sure you agree that this love story provides a wonderful opportunity to teach our children about the true meaning and value of marriage. On the steps of San Francisco City Hall, rose petals and champagne, suits and veils, horns honking and elation in the streets; a celebration of love the likes of which this society has never seen.



This morning, however, my joy turned to sadness, my relief transformed into outrage, and my peace became anger. This morning, I watched you stand before this nation and belittle these women, the thousands who stood with them, and the countless millions who wish to follow them. How could you do that, Mr. President? How could you take something so beautiful - a clear and defining example of the true nature of commitment - and declare it to be anything less? What is it that validates your marriage which somehow doesn't apply to Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon? By what power, what authority are you so divinely imbued that you can stand before me and this nation and hold their love to a higher standard?



Don't speak to me about homosexuality, Mr. President. Don't tell me that the difference lies in the bedroom. I would never presume to ask you or your wife how it is you choose to physically express your love for one another, and I defy you to stand before Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon and ask them to do the same. It is none of my business, as it is none of yours, and it has nothing to do with the "sanctity of marriage". I'm sure you would agree that marriage is far more than sexual expression, and its high time we all started focusing on all the other aspects of a relationship which hold it together over the course of a lifetime. Therefore, with the mechanics of sex set aside, I ask you again - what makes a marriage? I firmly believe that whatever definition you derive, there are thousands upon thousands of shining examples for you to embrace.



You want to protect marriage. I admire and support that, Mr. President. Together, as a nation, let us find and celebrate examples of what a marriage should be. Together, let us take couples who embody the principles of commitment, fidelity, sacrifice and love, and hold them up before our children as role models for their own futures. Together, let us reinforce the concept that love is about far more than sex, despite what popular culture would like them to believe.



Please, for the sake of our children, for the sake of our society, for the sake of our future, do not take us down this road. Under the guise of protection, do not support divisiveness. Under the guise of unity, do not endorse discrimination. Under the guise of sanctity, do not devalue commitment. Under the guise of democracy, do not encourage this amendment.

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This is a letter that was written by my girlfriend last week on her live journal. I figured I'd share.



BTW, for some reason in some places, Bette Midler is being credited as the author. We have no idea how or why or when that happened but it's out there.



D

Edited by: GODisTigger at: 3/5/04 2:54 pm

[Puff]

GodisTigger first of all it is wonderful to see you around on the board again. I loved the letter your girlfriend wrote, she should send that to her congress people.

[GODisTigger]

Quote:

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GodisTigger first of all it is wonderful to see you around on the board again.

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Thanks. I haven't had the time to visit the board lately.

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I loved the letter your girlfriend wrote, she should send that to her congress people.

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She sent the letter to everyone she could think of. Congressmen, newspapers, special interest groups...



D

[maudmac]

I'm coming up against a really frustrating thing in sending emails to legislators. Full inboxes. Grrrrrrr. It makes me want to go bang on their doors at 4 in the morning.



I suppose I could be optimistic about it and assume that their inboxes are full of mails that say the same things mine do, but that's probably overly optimistic, around here anyway.

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I have no professional training. I already gave my best. I have no regrets at all.

[xita]

That's really frustrating cause it means they aren't checking their emails at all, bastards. They forget who actually got them their jobs.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[Karmah]

if it helps my congressman says that snail mail is what they put the most stalk into. so if you can afford the .37 cents that might be a better way to go

She walks in beauty, Like the night of cloudless climes and starry skies;

And all that's best of dark and bright. Meet in her aspect and her eyes.

~ by Byron ~

[maudmac]

That's a good point and I definitely believe that a snail mail letter carries more weight than an email, if for no other reason than it takes more time and energy and therefore implies the sender is really serious and committed to whatever they're saying.



But the thing is, a lot of this stuff I sent was time-sensitive (votes on bills in my state legislature) and there wasn't time for snail mail to get there and be read before the vote.



Bleh!

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I have no professional training. I already gave my best. I have no regrets at all.

[Ben Varkentine]

Here's a good column from SF Gate.



"Where Is My Gay Apocalypse? Over 3,500 gay marriages and, what, no hellfire?"



Link at the bottom, these are the two 'graphs that made me really laugh:

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"It's anarchy," some guy named Rick Forcier, of the Washington state chapter of the Christian Coalition, actually whined. "We seem to have lost the rule of law. It's very frightening when every community decides what laws they will obey." Why, yes, Rick. It's total anarchy. Just look at all the screaming and the bloodshed and the gunfire. Run and hide, Rick. The gay people in love are coming. And they've got tattoos and funny haircuts and want to get married and celebrate their love and be left alone. Hide the children.

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Maybe it's still to come. Maybe total screaming misery and unspeakable sociocultural collapse coupled with wanton bestiality and incest and the giving away of free anal beads to innocent teenagers takes more than a month. Maybe I'm just a little impatient.

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Enjoy.



http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... 030504.DTL

[Karmah]

Ben that was an amusing read thanks

this quote has me still chuckling

Quote:

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(Oh, and while we're at it, God also really hates shrimp. Maybe you didn't know. Shrimp are evil, as are all shrimp eaters. Clams, too. Hey, it's in the Bible. You can look it up. Why the Right is attacking homosexuals in love and not, say, Red Lobster, remains a mystery.)

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the ending is a bit much but all and all the article was amusing

She walks in beauty, Like the night of cloudless climes and starry skies;

And all that's best of dark and bright. Meet in her aspect and her eyes.

~ by Byron ~

[Darcy]

Just FYI, the mention that God hates shrimp was likely prompted by

www.godhatesshrimp.com



Melissa had posted it over in the humor thread, but now that it's been mentioned here I figured I should provide the link.

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I don't care if it is an orgy of death, there's still such a thing as a napkin! - Willow in "Superstar"

[Rosenberg]

I thought this article was rather interesting:



Yale University historian John Boswell has discovered that the Catholic church has been marrying gays for centuries.

Jim Duffy writes in the Irish Times that in his book "The Marriage of Likeness: Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe," Boswell describes an icon from St. Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai which shows a typical Christian wedding, except that the "bride" and "groom" are both men-- Saint Serge and Saint Bacchus, Roman soldiers who became Christian martyrs.



In the 6th century, Severus of Antioch said, "We should not separate in speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life." In the 10th century, St. Serge is described as the "sweet companion and lover" of St. Bacchus. Their sexual orientation was openly accepted by early Christian writers. The St. Catherine's icon even shows Jesus serving as "best man."



After a 12-year search of Catholic and Orthodox church archives, Yale history professor Boswell discovered that a type of Christian homosexual "marriage" existed as late as the 18th century. Boswell found records of same-sex unions in church archives in the Vatican, St. Petersburg, Paris, Istanbul, and in Sinai, covering the 8th to the 18th centuries.



There was a ceremony called the "Office of Same Sex Union" (in 10th and 11th century Greek) or the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (in the 11th and 12th century).



In these ceremonies, everyone gathered in church, the priest blessed the couple before the altar, their right hands were joined as at heterosexual marriages, they took the Eucharist, and held a wedding banquet afterwards. This is shown in drawings of Byzantine Emperor Basil I (867-886), who married his companion John. Homosexual weddings also took place in Ireland in the late 12th/early 13th century, according to Gerald of Wales.



The 13th century Greek "Order for Solemnization of Same Sex Union" called on God to "vouchsafe unto these thy servants grace to love one another and to abide unhated and not a cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the Holy Mother of God and all thy saints." It concludes with: "And they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each other, and it shall be concluded."



A 14th century Serbian "Office of Same Sex Union" described a couple as laying their right hands laid on the Gospel while having a cross placed in their left hands. They then kissed each other, after which the priest gave them both communion. Dominican Jacques Goar (1601-1653) included these ceremonies in his Greek prayer books. A lesbian marriage is recorded in Dalmatia in the 18th century. In 1578 at St. John Lateran in Rome (the Pope's parish Church), 13 couples were "married" at a mass, "taking Communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together."

[Darcy]

One of my coworkers called me to give me a heads up on this. He heard it on the radio on his way home. So nice to have allies ....



Asbury Park Press



BREAKING NEWS: First gay wedding in New Jersey held in Asbury Park



Published in the Asbury Park Press

Staff report

ASBURY PARK - Ric Best and Louis Navarrete of Asbury Park were married today in city hall, becoming the first gay couple to married in New Jersey and drawing the city and state into the center of a widening national debate over same-sex marriage.



The ceremony uniting the two men in marriage was held at 3:30 p.m., 72 hours after the couple applied for a marriage license in the city clerk's office, and was performed by city deputy Mayor James Bruno. Bruno said Mayor Kevin Sanders refused to perform the marriage; Sanders was unavailable for comment today.



In addition to Bruno, two other city council mayors . . . Kate Mellina and John Loffredo, who is gay -- attended the ceremony in a show of official as well as personal support.



"We're very happy today," Best, 44, said as he rushed from city hall to a waiting car. "It's been a long time coming," Navarrete, 42, added, gripping Best's hand and smiling.

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I don't care if it is an orgy of death, there's still such a thing as a napkin! - Willow in "Superstar"

[Darcy]

A local broadcast news affiliate is running three Web surveys on same-sex marriage. So far, we're losing. Vote early and often - it's a Philadelphia tradition, even for the dead ...



www.nbc10.com/news/

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I don't care if it is an orgy of death, there's still such a thing as a napkin! - Willow in "Superstar"

[maudmac]

Wow, GODisTigger's gf's letter to Bush has become a full blown urban legend. That's tremendous exposure, both for the wonderful words and the issue they address.

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I have no professional training. I already gave my best. I have no regrets at all.

[Ben Varkentine]

There's going to be a story about gay marriage on 60 Minutes II tomorrow.

Quote:

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They've been lining up for the last month to make it official. Gay and lesbian couples are demanding the same rights as heterosexuals, and their demands have sparked a fierce debate taking place right now in cities, large and small, across the nation. They want to get married. And while President Bush is calling for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, couples across the nation are whispering the revolutionary words "I do." Correspondent Bob Simon sits down with the mayor of San Francisco who started it all.

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Should be worth watching, as TV news goes--which isn't that far at all, really--the 60 Minutes franchise is still pretty good. Check, as they say, local listings.

Ben



"Never be discouraged from being an activist because people tell you that you'll not succeed. You have already succeeded if you're out there representing truth or justice or compassion or fairness or love."

-- Doris 'Granny D' Haddock

[Gatito Grande]

It might be a good story, Ben, but I'm really sad to see the blurb perpetuating the idea that Gavin Newsome (or any other politician or judge, as noble as they may be) "started it all."



GG When of course it was the thousands of loving same-sex couples who deserve that accolade. Out

[Darcy]

And did you notice the other story with it? Dan Rather's piece on Essie Mae Washington-Williams, the biracial daughter of Strom Thurmond. I wonder if they see the irony there?



Oh, yes, by all means - let's talk about the kinds of things marriage needs to be defended from .....

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I don't care if it is an orgy of death, there's still such a thing as a napkin! - Willow in "Superstar"

[Ben Varkentine]

www.washingtonpost.com/wp...rrer=email

[WTJunkie]

I can't believe it!!! 60 minutes has been replaced with a Billy Graham special in my area! Gay wedding story too scary for primetime? 60 minutes will be replayed at 1am instead. Sheesh.

[cattwoman98111]

interesting little story,



www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4351828/





i liked this quote from it

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What is it about love that frightens us so much?

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good question i think.

You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty.-Sacha Guitry

[Warduke]

From Yahoo...

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Two States Deal Setbacks to Gay Marriage



By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer



SAN FRANCISCO - The California Supreme Court on Thursday ordered an immediate halt to gay marriages in San Francisco, delivering a victory to conservatives who have fought for a month to block the ceremonies.



Meanwhile, Massachusetts lawmakers gave preliminary approval to a constitutional amendment that would ban gay marriage but allow civil unions.



The amendment, which would strip gay couples of their court-granted marriage rights, must still weather several additional votes and anticipated legislative maneuvering by opponents.



The California court did not rule on the legality of gay marriages, and justices indicated they would decide in the coming months whether San Francisco's mayor had the authority to allow the weddings.



The dispute began Feb. 12, when Mayor Gavin Newsom ordered his administration to issue same-sex marriage licenses. A steady stream of gay couples from around the country have traveled to be married at City Hall, just a block from the Supreme Court. More than 3,700 couples having tied the knot in San Francisco so far.



The action by California's highest court came two weeks after state Attorney General Bill Lockyer and a conservative group asked the seven justices to immediately block the gay marriages.



The justices ruled unanimously that Newsom must "refrain from issuing marriage licenses or certificates not authorized" by California marriage laws.



"They restored order to chaos in San Francisco," said Joshua Carden, an attorney with the conservative Alliance Defense Fund.



Newsom's spokesman, Peter Ragone, said the city would comply with the ruling as soon as officials receive the order.



Jon Davidson, an attorney for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, a gay rights legal aid group, said the ruling simply puts the issue on hold for now.



"The court has put everything on pause rather than stop," he said. "They are saying that until we hear this, you are on pause."



Had the court declined to intervene, the legal battle over gay marriage in California would have taken years as gay marriage lawsuits traveled through the state's lower courts.



Newsom's defiance of California law prompted several other cities across the nation to follow suit, and President Bush last month said he would back a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages.



Massachusetts lawmakers' actions come after the state's highest court ruled in November that it was unconstitutional to prevent gays from marrying — a ruling that sparked a legislative scramble to amend the state constitution.



In statehouses nationwide, lawmakers are scrutinizing their constitutions to see if they could be construed to permit same-sex marriages, even in states where laws now bar them.



Lockyer and the Alliance Defense Fund said the court's action was urgently needed because thousands of newly married gays might otherwise think they enjoy the same rights granted other married couples — such as the right to receive the other spouse's property in the absence of a will.

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Firefox: One Browser To Rule Them All.

[crazyredlizard]

So I went down to New Paltz, NY today. This was my experience:



MARCH 13, 2004--I just returned home from witnessing 25 same-sex couples get married. I drove down to New Paltz, NY this afternoon, to witness a mass act of love and civil disobedience.



The mercury didn’t get out of the 30’s today, and the wind blew the ministers’ frocks, but there was warmth and a great sense of community in New Paltz. More than 200 New Yorkers came out to celebrate and cheer on the newlyweds. Situated along the Wallkill River, on a grassy lawn facing Main Street, a wedding was underway.



I didn’t know anyone getting married today but I did want to see the weddings. I wanted to see what strength in the face of adversity looked like. I wanted to see if the couples-who stood up for themselves and their right to love and be recognized equally under the law-were somehow different.



I’ve seen the news footage of activism and protests from the 50s and 60s. I’ve seen the varied marches on Washington, millions gathered to claim their equal rights or disagree with the government’s laws. I thought I knew what an “activist” looked like. I thought I knew what “civil disobedience” looked like. I always associated it with extremes of the political spectrum. In my mind, fighting for your equal rights involved conflicts with police, shouting, and the requisite protestor being hauled away in handcuffs. Today I saw that fighting for your rights to be treated equally under the law in America, can be as simple as loving someone and sealing that love with a kiss and a lot of clapping and cheering from onlookers, and honking cars passing by. Today, civil disobedience looked like this:



Parking was scarce, so my act of civil disobedience for the day was parking illegally. As I made my way over to the lawn, armed with coffee and camera, I saw a large crowd gathered. Rows of white chairs were provided for family, friends and community members to sit and bear witness. A wedding arbor, draped in white muslin and flowers, stood as the entryway for each couple, as their names were announced, to walk through and walk down the aisle. Two ministers stood alone, on makeshift wooden platform risers, one at each end of the lawn.



There were no protests. No traffic jams. The New Paltz Police and Ulster County Sheriff’s departments were on hand. They directed traffic and stood in a line, with perfect stoicism watching the ceremony, far away from the celebrants. Not a sour word filtered through the crowd. TV cameras, reporters and photographers were fighting for position, as each couple stood before a kind and brave minister, and took their vows. The crowd of 200+, were young and old. I saw frail old ladies in wheelchairs and little children running around in their Sunday best, even though it was Saturday. I saw multi-pierced college students, and people I’m sure I’ve seen at the local Target. Gay and straight, young and old, black and white, Jewish and Christian; it didn’t matter. They were all there to be a part of something bigger than themselves and definitely bigger than the small village of New Paltz, NY.



The men and women were married two couples at a time. Some stood in front of the minister, with two witnesses and no others. Other couples were jockeying for a place on their own wedding day, as family and friends joined them on the stage to support them, their commitment and their love.



The ministers were brief, but resolute in their words. I’m sure the knowledge that their colleagues-who married same-sex couples last weekend and soon will face legal charges from the Ulster County District Attorney’s Office-was in the back of their minds.



The couples were young and old, of many different races, religions and ethnic backgrounds. Some obviously came from money, others obviously did not. Some stood, with their children hugging their knees, as they exchanged rings and vows. Others stood with flowers and smiled. Some took that step onto the stage in front of the minister, closed their eyes and let out a breath to calm their nerves, before they said, “I do”. All of them had beaming grins. All of them had tears of joy in their eyes, as did most of the crowd watching to proceedings. All of them had hugs and words of thanks for the ministers and the mayor who stood nearby watching all this unfold.



Despite the presence of police and reporters, it looked like any other wedding. Families with disposable cameras and digital camcorders hovered to record the moments. Children ran around playing in the grass. Birdseed and flower petals were tossed as the couples returned from the ministers to sit with their family and friends. Townspeople stood along the sidewalks and watched the celebrations.



Whether the marriages performed today, or the ones solemnized in the past weeks will be found legal or not, is something for the courts and legislatures to decide. I have no idea how long this local and national debate will continue, or what the legal outcomes will be. But I do know this: the strength and fortitude it took for these couples to stand before a community and nation, to seek recognition that yes they too are legitimate and equal, is a powerful and moving experience to witness first hand.



As the last couple of the day exchanged rings and stood on the stage, I heard the minister officiate with strength and compassion. I stood nearby, next to one of the couples’ grandfather, and heard the minister’s words. “…in the name of love and justice, I pronounce you partners for life. Let nothing come between you and your love, nor anyone or anything tear this love asunder. Amen.”

Edited by: crazyredlizard at: 3/13/04 1:17 pm