The Politics Thread - Read the First Post

[Triscuit7]

According to a news report I heard driving to work, Nader isn't likely to make the ballot in Pennsylvania. It seems that the majority of his signatures will not stand up to investigation. This is the old Philadelphia electoral process in action: dead people not only can vote here, they can get elected. It gets to be embarassing at times.



Ciao, Melissa

******************



Do something totally irrational and let the enemy think himself to death. (Pyanfar Chanur)

[sam7777]

Here's another instance of Bush's "legacy":

Incomes weakest in nearly 2 years

Quote:

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The Commerce Department said Americans' personal incomes rose a scant 0.1 percent in July -- the slowest growth since November 2002 -- compared with a 0.2 percent gain in June. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com had forecast an increase of 0.5 percent.

---

And tech workers don't have it any better unless you are a DOT.com millionaire:

Tech workers stay put as economy perks up

Quote:

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ech workers are holding on to their jobs tighter than they have in more than 20 years.



Just 8.9% of tech workers willingly left their jobs last year, says an Aon Consulting survey of 595 of the world's best-known tech firms, including Microsoft, Cisco Systems and Intel. It was the third year in a row that voluntary turnover dropped. "It's as low as I've seen it, and I've been tracking these numbers since the early '80s," says study author John Radford.



The numbers do not include workers who are laid off, Aon says. Last year, 11.2% of the workforce left jobs involuntarily, compared with 20.3% in 2001, when the tech bubble burst.



The continued decline is a surprise because the economy is improving.

---

Well it's not improving where it matters as far as I am concerned. No one I know who is looking for work is having any luck. And I'm not the only one who thinks so:

US Consumers Anxious About Lack of Hiring

Quote:

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U.S. consumer confidence retreated in August while Chicago-area business activity slowed, according to reports on Tuesday that added to worries the economy's patch of slow growth may last beyond the summer.



A four-month slowdown in hiring and record oil prices took a bite out of confidence, with the Conference Board's monthly index falling more than 7 points in August to 98.2 from a revised 105.7 in July. The reading was well below economists forecasts of a smaller slip to 103.5.



Consumer hopes soured on both the current state of the economy and the outlook, with the present situation index sliding to 100.7 in August from 106.4 the prior month. The expectations index fell sharply, to 96.6 from 105.3.



A separate report showed Midwest businesses posting slower growth in August, with the National Association of Purchasing Management-Chicago's index falling to 57.3 in August from 64.7, deeper than the retreat to 60.8 economists had forecast.



The worsening data cast new worries on the growth outlook. More economists are beginning to question the outlook for consumer spending, which powers two-thirds of the economy, as income growth has stagnated. Even as spending rebounded in July, it came out of sparse savings or credit rather than income.



"A re-acceleration in hiring is needed to bolster consumer attitudes about the economy. More jobs will also generate faster income growth that will support consumer spending," said Steven Wood, chief economist at Insight Economics in Danville, California.



"A lot is riding on companies hiring more workers," he said.



Stock indexes initially slipped and the dollar slid as the data cast more doubt on the economy's strength, while Treasury prices rose and pushed the 10-year yield to a five-month low.

---

ETA: This is the "tent" Log Cabin Republicans want to get into?:

Republican anti-gay speaker compares gays to Hitler

Quote:

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If their line-up of speakers is any indication, there will be no compassion for Gay and Lesbian Americans at this year’s Republican National Convention, says the Democratic National Committee. Sheri Drew, who offered this morning’s invocation from the Convention Podium, has said those who support gay and lesbian families are no different from those who supported Adolph Hitler in the years preceding World War II.



When defending her comparison of Gay and Lesbians to Adolph Hitler, Drew simply stated that “it may seem a bit extreme to imply a comparison between the atrocities of Hitler and what is happening in terms of contemporary threats against the family—but maybe not.”



In response, DNC spokesperson Brian Richardson issued the following statement:



“It’s disappointing to think that a political party would want to have such a homophobic, anti-gay, anti-family individual participate in their national convention. A convention is about bringing people together, unfortunately with such a divisive participant and a discriminatory platform, this year’s Republican convention is more about tearing people apart.



“To compare hard-working, law-abiding families and their friends to Adolph Hitler is a disgrace. The Republican Party should take a stand for all families, and condemn this divisive rhetoric.”

---

I'm no fan of the DNC but the RNC's pandering to folks like Drew says volumes to me. If they don't denouce the homophobia then they are a party to it IMHO.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 8/31/04 12:14 pm

[Diebrock]

Adolf, Adolf, AdolF, AdolF, ADOLF Hitler



It's really not that hard. And at least it gives the illusion that the writer isn't totally clueless.



And while we're at it. It's Rudolf Heß/Hess and Rudolf Höß/Hoess. And Eichmann was an Adolf, too.



I have seen articles in English written by historians (or so they claimed) that used Adolph. How serious would people take someone writing articles about or only just mentioning George W. Boosh.



Sorry, pet peeve

_________________

Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

I've kissed her best friend. I've reached into her best friend's pocket and fished around for keys. And I gave her best friend my number. I must be doing something totally, totally wrong... - TBSOL by Dreams

[Kieli]

ROTFLMFAO! Diebrock...I get your point. I get peeved about gross spelling errors too....does that make me a Spelling Nazi? One wonders.

Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

[sam7777]

Well that Sheri Drew is totally clueless if she compares gays to Hitler. I fear to live in a country ruled by a party that listens to people like that.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[Diebrock]

Kieli

Spelling Nazi? There's no behaviour regarding spelling that deserves a Nazi suffix. But then we Germans tend to be pretty uptight about labeling something Nazi.



And anyway, why should you be the Spelling Nazi? Shouldn't it be the ones who torture and butcher innocent words and maim correct, clear-cut names?





You'd think that as often as Adolf Hitler is brought out for comparisons (in the US) with people ranging from Bush to Kerry, Saddam and now gays, that people who want to be taken seriously would at least know how to write his name.

_________________

Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

I've kissed her best friend. I've reached into her best friend's pocket and fished around for keys. And I gave her best friend my number. I must be doing something totally, totally wrong... - TBSOL by Dreams

[Still Waters Run Deep]

Here's an interesting article from the UK's Independent newspaper:



argument.independent.co.u...ory=557029



edited to add; Whoops, it's just an intro on the site at the moment, I read it in print...... anyways it might be available on-line tomorrow...............



but...........



It just about sums up my opinion of US 'democracy' and increasingly, that of the UK and a few other places too.



We are fast approaching that hemegony of a corporate world which was at the heart of 'Rollerball' [if you remember the movie] Where's Jonathon E when you need him?

-----------------------------------

love and kisses

Still Waters



"just an old, saggy cloth cat. Baggy, and a bit loose at the seams, but Emily loved him"

Edited by: Still Waters Run Deep at: 9/1/04 7:56 am

[justin]

Quote:

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When defending her comparison of Gay and Lesbians to Adolph Hitler, Drew simply stated that “it may seem a bit extreme to imply a comparison between the atrocities of Hitler and what is happening in terms of contemporary threats against the family—but maybe not.”

---

Weren't Gays and lesbians persecuted during the Holocaust? Which makes this comparison even more grotesque.



I have to say I don't think her comments were a "bit extreme" I think they're completely and utterly, here comes the sanity train but she's not taking any deliveries, mental



On a plus note I have read people worrying that the GOP would pull a fast one by just showing off their more moderate members in order to trick people into thinking they're a party about unity rather than hatred. I guess that isn't going to happen.



I can't see how comments like this aren't going to push any waverers over to voting for Kerry. Which suggests either they want to lose or they think that everyone thinks the same way they do.

"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised! - The Parrot Sketch

[shuyaku]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but all I have to say is WTF!!!

This is from CNN.com today www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/01/sodomy.law.ap/index.html

Quote:

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TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) -- The state can punish illegal underage sex more harshly when it involves homosexual acts, even if the only goal is promoting traditional values, a state official told the Kansas Supreme Court on Tuesday.



In a closely watched case, Deputy Attorney General Jared Maag said legislators have such broad latitude in setting policy that "any conceivable, rational basis" would justify the different treatment.



Maag argued in favor of upholding a sentence of more than 17 years in prison for Matthew R. Limon, convicted of criminal sodomy for having sex at age 18 with a 14-year-old boy in 2000.



Had the victim been a girl, Limon could have been sentenced to one year and three months in prison under a 1999 "Romeo and Juliet" law that gives shorter sentences to heterosexuals if the partners' ages are within four years and under 19.



His attorneys argued the different treatment represents discrimination against gays and lesbians and is unconstitutional.



But Maag said the different treatment is acceptable if legislators can argue there's a rational reason -- including promoting traditional values.



"If you admit there's a conceivable basis that's at least arguable, then that is enough to uphold the statute as constitutional," he said.



James Esseks, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney representing Limon, said the state has "fanciful justifications" for the harsher sentence.



Esseks said the state is basing its law on "private prejudice," which is constitutionally unacceptable.



The Kansas Court of Appeals rejected Limon's appeal in 2002. Last year, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Texas law criminalizing gay sex and returned Limon's case to the state courts.



But in a 2-1 decision in January, the Kansas Court of Appeals noted that the U.S. Supreme Court case involved consenting adults and sided with the state again. Limon then appealed the state Supreme Court, which could rule as early as October 15.

---

I'm not saying that Limon shouldn't be incarcerated for statutory rape (a whole other Oprah there), but that ^ is ridiculous.



-shuyaku

Oh God, Willow—you’re giving me the gift of Karen Carpenter. Just when I think I grasp the full extent of your love." - Tara

"Why do birds suddenly appear? It’s because, you are queer…" - Willow (Gods Served and Abandoned by AntigoneUnbound)

[Diebrock]

Makes me glad that I live in a country that has an age of sexual consent of 14 for everyone.

_________________

Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

I've kissed her best friend. I've reached into her best friend's pocket and fished around for keys. And I gave her best friend my number. I must be doing something totally, totally wrong... - TBSOL by Dreams

[michellesflute]

Quote:

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Those who support gay and lesbian families are no different from those who supported Adolph Hitler in the years preceding World War II.

---

I don't know if I should laugh or cry at this statement.

This is not only a terrible lie, but a slap in the face of all the residence fighter during the Third Reich who risked their lives by hiding gays and lesbians, jews, political opponents of the Hitler Regime or any other unworthy lives.



shuyaku

yes, this is really ridiculous. But I heard and read of cases where kids were sentenced to lifelong prison and mentally ill people to death. I know, this has nothing to do with this case, but it shows me one more time what I should think of the American justice.

Anya: "So, I've been reading a lot about the good old 'us of A', embracing the extraordinarily precious ideology that's helped to shape and define it."

Willow: "Democracy?" Anya: "Capitalism."

[Kieli]

Quote:

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But then we Germans tend to be pretty uptight about labeling something Nazi.

---

True...it's amazing how one word can bring to mind such hideous connotations that people automatically cringe when it's mentioned. Funny, though, how that doesn't seem to stop the intellectually-challenged from making spurious connections (my own pathetic attempt at humour aside). This statement "Those who support gay and lesbian families are no different from those who supported Adolph Hitler in the years preceding World War II." just proves that even the truly ignorant can twist the lessons of history into a pretzel. Apparently, logic doesn't factor anywhere into that article whatsoever. Gays and lesbians aren't trying to commit genocide at every turn; we simply want to be treated as the human beings we are.



It's easy for someone who's never picked up a bloody history book in their lives (except for those decidedly incorrect ones that every schoolchild has been saddled with since they enter the US educational system) to take a few incidents in history and totally make complete asses of themselves by spouting off a few lines of utter nonsense publicly. I'm sure she thought she sounded intelligent but...not so much. I'm sure this was in answer to many (like myself) who can see the obvious parallels between the events that Adolf Hitler spurred in WWII and the events of post-9-11/Iraq War. Those parallels can be made reasonably with corresponding data and events to prove the argument. Ms. Drew seems to be one of those Republicans like her beloved Bush...speak without intelligence nor authority regardless of whether or not you're right.



I'm disturbed at that other article. One would think we were living in the Middle East and not the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. More and more it's sounding like "The Land of the Free only if you're straight, Christian and for American no matter how wrong we are". How fucking pathetically stupid. I get more disgusted as this silly political bullshit goes on. November just can't get here fast enough for me.

Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

[sam7777]

Quote:

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November just can't get here fast enough for me.

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Kieli: I would feel the same if Kerry was going to win but lately he has fallen behind the polls and that was before the convention:

Electoral College Projections

Quote:

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Date Bush Kerry

Aug 29 213 207

Aug 28 200 190

Aug 27 183 193

Aug 22 183 203

Aug 20 183 223

Aug 18 192 223

Aug 17 192 228

Aug 09 197 228

Aug 05 197 232

Aug 03 197 227

---

Kerry now trails Bush in number of electoral votes projected. The mud slung at Kerry by republicans is making up more minds than actual facts.

Electoral Vote Predictor 2004: Kerry 242 Bush 280

When I last posted the electoral breakdown from this site on Aug 10th it was: Kerry 307 Bush 231



Kerry is losing ground on Bush. The Republican's campaign of homophobia, fear and smear appears to be working. The only good news I see are the protests:

Republican Convention Dogged by Relentless Protests



The real face of the Republican Party is not at their dog and pony show:

A Call to 'Win This Culture War'

Quote:

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At a closed, invitation-only Bush campaign rally for Christian conservatives yesterday, Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas called for a broad social conservative agenda notably different from the televised presentations at the Republican convention, including adopting requirements that pregnant women considering abortions be offered anesthetics for their fetuses and loosening requirements on the separation of church and state.



"We must win this culture war," Senator Brownback urged a crowd of several hundred in a packed ballroom of the Waldorf-Astoria hotel, reprising a theme of a speech by Patrick J. Buchanan from the podium of the 1992 Republican convention that many political experts say alienated moderate voters in that election.



Called "the Family, Faith and Freedom Rally" in e-mail invitations sent to Christian conservatives in New York for the convention, the event was organized by the Bush-Cheney campaign "to celebrate America and President George W. Bush," according to a copy of the invitation. The e-mail called Mr. Bush "a conservative leader who shares our values, who takes a strong stand for his faith."



Ralph Reed, a senior campaign adviser and liaison to conservative Christians, also addressed the crowd. Several campaign staff members, including the deputy political director, Christian Myers, attended, along with Timothy Goeglein, the White House liaison to Christian groups. One invited participant said the rally, which was closed to the news media, was the main event sponsored by the campaign for social conservatives attending the convention.

---

If they win, I see most of the rest of us on the wrong side of their "cultural war". It begins with banning gay marriage but then moves quickly to banning civil unions or even contracts between two "unmarried" read gay people as was done in Virginia and then on to criminalizing homosexuality as they tried to do in Tennessee:

Tennessee County Backtracks On Jailing Gays



Where will it end?

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 9/1/04 9:51 pm

[Gatito Grande]

Yeah, sam, I checked that Electoral College site earlier tonight:



I'm feeling the need to become obnoxious on this thread, and fast. I do NOT want another 4 years of hell, people!





*Do you have a Kerry/Edwards sticker on your car?



*Do you have a Kerry/Edwards sign on your lawn, or in your apt. window?



*Have you sent Kerry/Edwards, the Dems, or one of those wonderful "527"s like MoveOn.org any $?



*Have you volunteered for any of the above?



*ARE YOU REGISTERED AT YOUR *CURRENT* ADDRESS??? (And, if you have the option of registering to vote in a swing state, have you done so?)



*Have you spoken to your friends and family, 1) about registering to vote, and 2) that Kerry looks like a bleedin' saint (not to mention "patriotic war hero"!) compared to the *sshole we've got now (feel free to NOT use the word "*sshole," if refraining helps you convince your mom )



War. Gay-hating. Tax cuts for rich, job losses for poor. Environmental destruction. Laughingstocks (if not more like "Wished we would f-off and die"-stocks) in the eyes of the world.



Need I go on?



Are you willing to LET this go on?



GG Or will you do EVERYTHING in your power to see that "Regime change begins at home???" Out



Fur'ner Kittens : I believe that your currencies are verboten in the U.S. electoral process, but there's NOTHING to stop you from spending a lovely autumn holiday in the States . . . while volunteering to help CHANGE the "leader of the Free World." Pass out flyers/lawn-signs! Staff a phone-bank! Just provide food and other material support for the Yanks in the GOTV (that's "Get Out the Vote") trenches! C'mon, it'll be fun . . . and educational too!



[Assuming I'm not homeless , GG hereby offers crash-space, in the "key swing state" of Michigan, to any non-U.S. Kitten who would like to volunteer this fall ]

[sam7777]

Bush has no interest in being the president of the whole United Staes IMHO. His campaign is focusing on those who already support him to get out the vote:

Decibels but no dialogue

Quote:

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The reality of an electorate split down the middle and unwilling to hear, let alone engage the other side's position, can hardly be lost on political strategists. As the Wall Street Journal reported in a front-page story Monday, "religious conservatives are at the heart of a Bush campaign that is turning traditional general election strategy on its head. Instead of focusing on undecided swing voters, Bush advisors are putting top priority on maximizing voter turnout among conservative constituencies already disposed to back the president."



In part, the Journal reported, the incumbent's campaign is responding to the GOP's analysis of demographic change. "The nation's face is being reshaped in ways that aren't helpful to the Bush effort. The Hispanic population is exploding in size, and Hispanic voters are heavily Democratic. Other nonwhite ethnic groups are also growing. If all demographic groups slip as they did in 2000, the Bush team estimates that Bush would finish with 3 million fewer votes than … Kerry."



Thus, the Republicans' decision to preach to the choir and to make sure that as many members as possible show up to sing on election day. Karl Rove, the GOP's strategist-in-chief, calls this new-style campaigning "a mobilization election."



The death of persuasion as political style will have consequences beyond a mere coarsening of our public discourse. A series of campaigns designed solely to hold and energize the already faithful will further divide this pluralistic society. Compromise is persuasion's practical handmaid. The big winners in a political system preoccupied with comforting its true believers will be the single-issue constituencies that cluster so rabidly around issues such as abortion, gun control and gay marriage.



Just how far do we want to go toward a faith-based politics? It takes little imagination to conceive just how much more unlovely this society may become, if the biggest predictor of a voter's decision on election day is whether they regularly attend a church on Sunday.



Not long before his untimely death in 1967, the great Jesuit theologian John Courtney Murray wrote: "Argument ceases to be civil when it is dominated by passion and prejudice; when its vocabulary becomes solipsist, premised on the theory that my insight is mine alone and cannot be shared; when dialogue gives way to a series of monologues; when the parties to the conversation cease to listen to one another, or hear only what they want to hear…. When things like this happen, men cannot be locked together in argument. Conversation becomes merely quarrelsome or querulous. Civility dies with the death of dialogue."



As we consider the arid topology of campaign 2004, and envision the dreary passage to be traversed in the months ahead, Murray's thoughts seem less a caution than a prophecy.

---

Bush is defying conventional wisdom that says you should try to appeal to most of people and instead is picking one niche to appeal and pander to. If Bush wins, those outside this niche lose. If Bush wins, others will do the same and we will have a string of presidents beholden to those that vote for them and no one else. This will erode our democracy in the long run. Worst of all, Bush is dividing this country at a time when we need unity to survive the challenges of today. Bush's America has no place for folks like me.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 9/1/04 11:48 pm

[AmbersSecretAdmirer]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. As an outsider (I live in Scotland) I have seen Bush's foreign and domestic policies and civil rights legislations and have looked upon them with mounting shock and disgust.



Kerry and Edwards have got to start taking the fight to Bush or America will be faced with Bush again.



Take it from someone from outside the USA, Bush is NOT winning America much respect or allegience outside of America. People are falling in with him not because they agree with him, but because they fear the consequences of defying him.



In my mind, that makes Bush a tyrant. America, you have to vote this man out before your good standing in the world plummets.

TARA AND WILLOW 2GETHER 4EVER!!! BLESSED BE ETERNALLY!!!

[sam7777]

Thanks ASA! Bush's alienation of our allies is simply making everything more difficult from the war on terror to fighting AIDs to safguarding Americans abroad.



GG: As an independent and bitter ex-democrat, I am unable to donate to the Kerry campaign or the DNC but have supported Moveon.org. That said Kerry is clearly the best man in all respects IMHO.



I voted for Nader in 1996 but his turn to Republicans to get on the ballot just disgusts me. IMHO Nader is setting back the cause of 3rd parties by becoming a tool of the RNC. I voted for Gore in 2000 cuz I was in Florida, nuff said and will vote for Kerry in 2004 though I'm in California now which is not a swing state.



Just to show that a Ph.D from Harvard University is no guarentee of a lack of ignorance, I present the sordid case of Alan Keyes:

Keyes' gay slam roils GOP

Quote:

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"In a homosexual relationship, there is nothing implied except the self-fulfillment, contentment and satisfaction of the parties involved in the relationship," said Keyes, who holds a Ph.D from Harvard University. "That means it is a self-centered, self-fulfilling, selfish relationship that seeks to use the organs intended for procreation for purposes of pleasure. The word pleasure in Greek is hedone and we get the word hedonism from that word."

---

Granted that's how the media portrays gays for the most part when they aren't tragically dying (and even when they are) but surely Keyes could see beyond that stereotypical portrayal. Guess not. Any bets he doesn't actually know a real gay person. This is why I bemoaned the loss of W/T which was a long term loving relationship that happened to be between two women and helped create a community like the Kitten board populated by both straight and gay people united in their love of W/T.



In other news, it seems the Log Cabin Republicans are finally getting a clue:

Gay Republicans say they are unlikely to back Bush, GOP platform

Quote:

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Many upset at president's support for Marriage Amendment, a draw for evangelicals



At a convention where Republicans intend to showcase their unity behind the re-election of President Bush, the party's major gay group isn't exactly sticking to script.



Leaders of the Log Cabin Republicans said Sunday the group is unlikely to endorse Bush next week in the wake of the move by a conservative-dominated GOP platform committee to strongly support a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage and oppose legal recognition of gay civil unions.



"The president's support of the federal Marriage Amendment, and (political strategist) Karl Rove's decision to use gay and lesbian Americans as wedge issues ... and the outrageous and insulting platform language has jeopardized that endorsement," said Patrick Guerriero, executive director of the Log Cabin Republicans.

.....

Many of the Log Cabin members said Sunday they could not promise to vote for Bush in the wake of the platform decision.



"I don't think the president has been the uniter he said he would be,'' said Mark Patrosso, a Log Cabin activist from the Bay Area.

---

The president is not a Uniter? In other news, the sky is blue. Here's hoping that they don't endorse them. Bush and the RNC won't give a damn but it would give the Log Cabin a modicum of credibility.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[Gatito Grande]

Quote:

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"In a homosexual relationship, there is nothing implied except the self-fulfillment, contentment and satisfaction of the parties involved in the relationship,"

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Isn't it astounding that this could be said as an accusation?! (Just imagine, the horrible perversion of mutual "contentment"! )



sam (and other bitter ex-Dems and independents): we all do what we can (like I could give K/E any money? ).



But at the same time, putting a Kerry/Edwards bumpersticker on your car does NOT mean that you've somehow sold your soul to them (IMO). Rip it off on Wednesday, Nov. 3, and give 'em (and all the Dems) the what-for of just what you expect (i.e. demand) they now do, w/ that victory you now helped give 'em.



GG But please, PLEASE: *remove the current occupiers* first! Out



ASA: if you're interested in coming over to help, drop me a line.

[Kieli]

Quote:

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"In a homosexual relationship, there is nothing implied except the self-fulfillment, contentment and satisfaction of the parties involved in the relationship," said Keyes, who holds a Ph.D from Harvard University. "That means it is a self-centered, self-fulfilling, selfish relationship that seeks to use the organs intended for procreation for purposes of pleasure. The word pleasure in Greek is hedone and we get the word hedonism from that word."

---

Oh and I suppose heterosexual sex for "recreational purposes" does not fit the criteria he listed above? Puhleeze. Diana always told me that having a PhD does not necessarily mean you have a brain or you know what you're talking about. Bush has proven that almost any idiot with enough money can go to a prestigious university. He managed to get into Yale while disdaining those with education. Go figure.



Keyes most certainly fits among that group of idiots with a piece of paper but not much true education to back it up. So I wonder, does Mr. Keyes only have sex for procreation purposes with his wife? If so, she must be bored as hell with him. And is he saying that Jesse Jackson's little fling with his mistress does not fit the definition he put forth? Hmm, methinks his argument has so many logical flaws one could drive an Abrams tank through it. However, I can see where people without any passing knowledge of logic could accept his insane little theory. He's operating on the premise that heterosexual sex ALWAYS implies procreational intent. As the huge pornography industry can attest, that is simply not the case. While heterosexual sex does have one added "benefit", it too serves for the purposes of self-fulfillment, contentment and satisfaction of the parties involved. *sigh* It's sad to think that there are people who still allow this man to open his mouth. He makes himself look less intelligent every time he does.

Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

[Gatito Grande]

[This could really go on the "Scarier Religion and Homosexuality" thread]



Keyes is just a "Mother Angelica"-type Roman Catholic, and parrots whatever Cardinal RATzinger's latest bullsh*t is: the idea that there is some Gloriously Pure Platonic Ideal of Sex (TM)---"unitive" and "procreative"---is an example of same. It ignores



1) Human beings don't live "Platonic Ideals," they have actual lives



2) Their Ideals, in a word, suck: just your basic patriarchal, misogynistic crap where {crude language warning] penises happily spew in ecstatically-awaiting vaginas and babies, babies, babies are *the* guarantee that All is Right w/ God's Creation (not to mention His Pope ).



GG Pardon me while I Out



. . . and I say that as someone who, basically, enjoyed heterosexual sex while I was having it (and who is, FWIW, Anglo-Catholic).

[Still Waters Run Deep]

hey the Independent is really going for the jugular check out



news.independent.co.uk/wo...ory=557746





Bush by numbers.............. enjoy.

-----------------------------------

love and kisses

Still Waters



"just an old, saggy cloth cat. Baggy, and a bit loose at the seams, but Emily loved him"

[kukalaka]

Thanks for that and may I just quote one thing

Quote:

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7 Number of Arabic linguists fired by the US army between mid-August and mid-October 2002 for being gay.

---

---

IDIC

[emma peel]

Thanks for that link, SWRD. I couldn't finish reading it. I'm numb.

I only hope that voters are smarter than I think they are and unelect the "faux president" in Novermber. I feel many of our lives are at stake.

[maudmac]

Makes it very clear why it's so important to get that man out of the White House. Infuriating stuff.



US-Election.org is interesting.

Quote:

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What is this all about?



The Presidential election in the United States has an impact on people in countries throughout the world, yet only US citizens are permitted to vote in that election. US-election.org is a Web site designed to permit people throughout the world to cast a ballot in the US election.

---

It's essentially useless, but it still feels good to cast a vote, perhaps especially if you're not in the US.



Also, I had no idea that Leonard Peltier was running for President on the Peace & Freedom Party ticket or that Marilyn Chambers was running for VP on the Personal Choice Party ticket. So many parties, so many viewpoints, such a wide range of positions on the issues...I hope I'll live to see a day when more of these parties can get a foot in the door. I'm a Green at heart and it saddens me that, yet again, I cannot vote my conscience in an election. Bleh! But...priorities, priorities! Getting the smirking chimp out of the White House is priority number one.



Fuel for your anti-Bush tendencies (if you need any more) can be found at the Daily Mislead. (Today, you can see just how hard the GOP is working to steal Florida again. )

---

i wasn't sniffing your spicy brains

[Kieli]

I won't step foot into the Religion thread. It would be a very bad thing if I did.



However, I grew up Catholic, am very happy that I left the Church at an earlier enough age where I could recover (relatively speaking) from all of the damage it did and the scars it left. Keyes and the Catholic Church basically help support my theory that both have control issues. (and a little sex just might clear it up for both parties )



I made the mistake of reading some of the Republican nonsense going on (and if there are STILL any gay Republicans left, I say "Shame on you! If Bush gets re-elected, your closet won't be big enough to hide your cowardly selves. We're in this together.") My blood pressure went up several points and I was saddened as well. He waffles on whether or not the war on terror can be won and people STILL think he's a good leader. How can you say one thing but mean another? I'm even more appalled at Mary Cheney. I hope she doesn't think that she can remain out if Bush gets re-elected. Apparently her being the VP's daughter means nothing when it comes to getting attacked a la Allen Keyes (at least he's a non-partisan gaybasher): Keyes: Mary Cheney is a Selfish Hedonist.

Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

[sam7777]

Pushing bigotry, fear and what is worst in Americans is a winning strategy for Bush:

Bush Takes 11-Point Election Lead Over Kerry-Poll

Quote:

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President Bush, winning strong support for his handling of the war on terrorism, has taken a double-digit lead over Democratic challenger John Kerry, according to a Time poll released on Friday.



The survey of 926 likely voters, conducted from Tuesday to Thursday during this week's Republican National Convention, found 52 percent supported Bush, 41 percent backed Kerry and 3 percent would vote for independent candidate Ralph Nader.



Bush's 11-point lead is the first time either of the two main contenders have had a significant advantage in polls, which for months have shown them running neck-and-neck.



The Time magazine poll had a 4 percent margin of error for likely voters.



An NBC News/Wall Street poll eight days ago showed Bush leading Kerry by 47 percent to 45 percent.



In the new poll, 57 percent of those surveyed said they trusted Bush to handle the war on terrorism, while 36 percent trusted Kerry, and 59 percent said they approved of how the president was handling the war, while 38 percent disapproved.



Bush also fared better on the question of leadership, with 56 percent saying they trusted Bush to provide strong leadership in difficult times, while Kerry received only 37 percent backing.



On the economy, tied with the war on terrorism as the most important issue ahead of the Nov. 2 election among registered voters, Bush narrowly came out on top.



Forty-seven percent of respondents trusted Bush more to handle the economy, while 45 percent favored Kerry.

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And the Log Cabin republicans still don't know if they will endorse Bush even after all the homphobia at the RNC. I feel like I did when talking about the Dead LESBIAN Cliche. I know it's wrong but no one else seems to see it. I simply know that four more years of Bush will be bad for people like me.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 9/3/04 5:53 pm

[Diebrock]

What does Leabina mean? I tried to find it in the dictionary but as I wasn't even sure what language to look for I was unsuccessful. Help!

_________________

Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

I've kissed her best friend. I've reached into her best friend's pocket and fished around for keys. And I gave her best friend my number. I must be doing something totally, totally wrong... - TBSOL by Dreams

[skittles]

I think it is a misspelling of Lesbian.

skittles

Prepare the child for the path, not the path for the child.

[sam7777]

Yep meant lesbian. I can understand the focus on spelling. Spelling is alot easier to fix and less depressing than politics.



One reason that I am a bitter ex-democrat is their turn to the right under the Democratic Leadership Council such that now they refuse to take any meaningful stand on things like the Iraq War or Gay Marriage. Though they are certainly better than the Republicans, I don't feel they represent me either. If Bush wins this fall, it will be because he yet again successfully smeared a better man: McCain in 2000 and Kerry in 2004.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 9/3/04 5:54 pm

[Gatito Grande]

sam (and all other Kittens)



DO NOT GIVE UP !!



GG It's still early: DON'T MOURN, ORGANIZE! Out



Get Angry, and Get Out the Vote!!!