It's stick that in your Pope & smoke it

[Urn of Osiris]

So i'm watching the news and the media is practically doing a countdown for the poor old guy. It's sad but funny to me. Kinda ironic that the old dinosaur, the symbol of the catholic church, is parked out on a balcony and can barely wave to the people below. So it got me to thinking about how very little I actually care about my own religion.



My question is, can you be faithfilled and still reject religion?



Personally I think you can. I like to believe (or emotionally justify) that my higher powers appreciate my free thinking. It seems like organized groups like to preach their views and screw everyone else.



My W/T Question. Were they faithfilled or religious?



I like to think that Tara just went with what came naturally. We know that Willow was Jewish but we never established any real religious devotion. I'm pretty sure that Tara was not a kosher treat.



okay, so maybe this is a lame weekend thread but at least it is one.

Urn of OsirisA new idea is delicate. It can be killed by a sneer or a yawn; it can be stabbed to death by a joke or worried to death by a frown on the right person's brow. Charles Brower

Edited by: xita  at: 4/6/05 6:28 pm

[urnofosiris]

For his sake I hope it will be over soon. The media circus feels icky, the way it usually does when someone famous is about to die or has died. I am sure all the in memoriam documentaries have been dusted off and are just waiting for someone to hit the play button.

I am mostly worried about how concervative the next pope is going to be and whether we will get more of those lovely pearls of wisdom like condoms not protecting against HIV and whether he will continue to cultivate their ´openminded´ attitude towards homosexuality.



Anyway, I think the answer to your question is most definitely yes.



As for WT, I´d go with faithfilled: faith in each other and in the love they share.

[skittles]

I think it ironic that just after Terri Schiavo died, they announced that the Pope had been given a nasal feeding tube for nutrition.



But I agree with both of you in that I hope it is over for Pope John Paul II soon. It had been reported earlier today that he didn't want to go back to the hospital but wanted to stay in his apartments in the Vatican. I am interpreting that as a "no heroic measures" order.



I'm remembering back to fall of 1978, when I woke in late August/early September to the news that Pope Paul VI(?) was dead... and then waking a little more than a month later to the news that Pope John Paul (I) had died. (Was that a message from above saying "try again, boys"??) I don't remember either "election" to choose the next Pope taking that long... but I'm very sure that this one will be a very long seclusion & election. I'm not really sure who it will be, but I'm truly praying that the next Pope will be as moderate as possible .. but I'm not holding my breath. But I will pray.



As for W/T: I see them as more spiritual, than religious... respecting each other, life & the world around them.

skittles



"The problem with political jokes is how often they get elected."



"Closed minds always seem to be connected to open mouths"

[Gatito Grande]

Assuming that Karol Wojtyla is either dead, or so close to it as to be indistinguishable, I try not to speak ill of the dead.



I'm a universalist (small 'u'): I believe EVERYONE gets to enjoy eternal bliss w/ the Infinite . . . with the single proviso that, if invited to the party, you actually show up to party w/ ALL the other party-goers.



To put it bluntly, Heaven resembles One Giant Gay Disco Karol W. (aka "the Holy Father" etc. etc. etc.) is More Than Welcome to join in the Eternal Electric Slide, IF he doesn't mind bumping booties w/ some gay boy who died of AIDS after a lifetime of nights spent "under the pier" (or wherever).



GG If not, alternate arrangements . . . are probably less pleasant. RIP JP2! Out

[maudmac]

Jerry Falwell's health seems to be touch-and-go lately, too. Oh well. It's very hard for me to have a great deal of sympathy for people with such vile attitudes, because they contribute to a worsening of the world, in my opinion. I feel for anyone who is suffering, but I also feel for the people suffering in part because of the attitudes of folks like Falwell and the Pope. No doubt that conservative Protestants and Catholics would disagree with that assessment - that many of their leaders are not working for good in the world - but I have difficulty finding the love in many of their messages.



I don't believe in Heaven and Hell in the western religious sense. I'm on board, though, with concepts like karma and reincarnation. I think of them as akin to Heaven and Hell, just they take much, much longer to play out. However I look at it, I am inclined to believe that the Pope, Falwell, Terri Shiavo, myself, and all of us, will reap what we've sown.



The media circus around just about everything, deaths, illnesses, trials, etc., these days is pretty sickening. It's too much and we can only take so much before we have to stop paying attention and caring about it.



If I were inclined to believe in a Creator, I'd also believe that that Creator is in all things and all I'd need to do to be aware of it is open my eyes, my mind, and my heart. So, yes, I definitely believe that it's possible to have faith or be spiritual and not adhere to a specific religion or go to church/temple/mosque/whatever. (I'd say Willow and Tara probably both felt the same way about it, too.)

---

don't make me come up there - satan

[Wanderrerr]

The thought of the pope dying scares me since I'm not old enough to remember anyone else holding that position. It'll be weird to have someone else in that role. Although there are issues that I don't agree with him on, I will definitely be praying for him.

As for your question, I think people can be spiritual without necessarily being religious. Just that some need religion as a sort of guide.



wow, I never post and when I finally do, its on this topic.

Edited by: Wanderrerr at: 4/1/05 7:26 pm

[good2cats]

Hi All,
Is there an end to this three ring circus?It seems you can't turn on the TV any longer without being subjected to a spectacle.First the seemingly unending Schiavo freak show where I wouldn't be surprised if the autopsy wasn't offered on pay for view and her ashes put up for bidding on Ebay.And now it's the Pope death watch.He probably a OK guy but I can't help but think of him as the CEO of a huge multinational conglomerate where a significant number of employees think that child molestation is acceptable.In short I am put off all organized religions as being inherently divisive and this my god can beat up your god bull shit leading to the ruination of the planet.What I believe in is simple human decency which can be arrived at without the encumbrances of a structured religion

[vix84]

Nice thread, Urnie!



"I'm pretty sure that Tara was not a kosher treat." LMAO! I don't know, I personally think she's Kosher. She's definitely a spiritual experience for Willow.



I don't think we ever saw the faith side of Willow/Tara on the show. Tara had the Wiccan background but you never saw her turning to it as solace. Well, I didn't. And Willow, she didn't have any religious connection to Judaism but Wicca changed her life. The only annoying thing about how they portrayed her turn to magick was that it was all about the spells, nothing about nature and spirituality. Sad! They could have done so much more.



GG, recently I did a quiz about which religion I'm most suited to, and got the result Unitarian Universalism. I'd actually never heard of it. From what I understood, it's all about individual truth and search for meaning. And I was amused to see the gay banners. I'm curious to know more about it.

[Auburn]

Oooo interesting, y'know when I was studying nursery nursing we had to learn a whole section about different religions because of all the children with cultural differences that would be in my care. I learnt about the differences and I have to say the religion I could relate to more was 'hiduism' I won't name the one I didn't like... I just can't grasp the rediculous rules it has to ensure people stick to it!



Personally I'm sad that john paul is dying and that it's so prolonged because he's human. As for him being the pope that has no affect on me what so ever! I don't follow religion, but I do have faith.



Willow and Tara, I would have thought Tara was big with the wiccan and Willow dabbled in wicca and judaism - tiny jewish wiccan santa!

What are we? Leaders

What aren’t we? Followers!

Why aren’t we? Because nobody knows where the fuck they’re going!

[Urn of Osiris]

Thanks Vix.



While at a party last night I was subjected to the CNN Vatican coverage. Live coverage of someone dying seems so wrong. It is true that the media is obsessed with being there and being the first to report it. I hate to see the suffering but he's just a man in a powerful position. When was the last time this guy really made a decision? I wonder who has been dotting his i's and crossing his t's? That is what really scares me. I have no use for the organization. It's a big boys club and I wasn't born with the equipment to participate. Needless to say vocalizing these thoughts at the party last night did not make me very popular.



As for the Schiavo thing, I consider that a lesson learned. If you want to have a choice on dying with dignity, put it in writing. We're all gonna go eventually. Seems like once the doctors used heroic measures you shouldn't say ooops and try to pretend that you didn't. That lady starved to death. Now that's fucked up.

Urn of OsirisA new idea is delicate. It can be killed by a sneer or a yawn; it can be stabbed to death by a joke or worried to death by a frown on the right person's brow. Charles Brower

[urnofosiris]

Well he´s dead now. That means that the coming week or so I will have keep the remote ready, because I am seriously not interested in listening to how wonderful this pope was. I am sure he has not been deciding anything for a long time, so the very concervative attitudes were not his alone. There is probably a little clique of guys with the power and they will pick their leader. I have little hope of improvement. I am not religious, but I still worry, seeing this particular institute still has enough power to affect the lives of so many, whether you want anything to do with it or not.

Quote:

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As for the Schiavo thing, I consider that a lesson learned. If you want to have a choice on dying with dignity, put it in writing. We're all gonna go eventually. Seems like once the doctors used heroic measures you shouldn't say ooops and try to pretend that you didn't. That lady starved to death. Now that's fucked up.

---

It is. I tried to avoid the news on her as much as possible to not have to endure listening to you know who with that ´when in doubt chose life´ argument. I actually feel that way myself, but it seems rather odd coming from someone who supports execution. Did anyone remind him of how many people have been condemned to death when it was clear there was doubt about their guilt and who were later even proven beyond a doubt to be innocent. I have no idea how many, but I am betting at least one, which would be one too many.

I also was bothered by those who claim that the way she died was inhumane (again, I feel that way myself), but at the same time they would deny people who are in excruciating pain or slowly choking to death because of an incurable illness, the possibility to end their life at their own terms. How humane is dying like that.

[Gatito Grande]

I know what you mean about "keeping the remote handy", G. I felt that way for a week last summer, when it was all about "Saint Ronnie Reagan"



I'm glad that both "extremis" situations w/ the Pope (or, w/ simple human compassion, I prefer to think of him: Karol Wojtyla) and Terri Schiavo (Prince Ranier of Monaco probably ought to be next) are OVER. While I can't think of JP2 as a saint---or make any sense of Terri Schiavo whatsover (besides the obvious "make your intentions known in unambiguous writing" thang)---their continuing suffering did them no good whatsoever (contra the incessant yammering from RC mouthpieces about how "the Pope shows us the value of suffering" ).



GG vix84, I called myself a "small 'u' universalist" because I'm not a Unitarian-Universalist (UU). They're a good group, but their worship-life is a little too dry and nebulous for my tastes: I'm an Episcopalian (aka Anglican) Out



W/T, more than anything else, had faith in each other.

[Thespia]

Improbable as it may be, I would like to see cardinal Carlo Maria Martini as the next pope. He is for contraception and for ordenation of women.



If he is only a dream, Ratzinger is a nightmare.

[skittles]

Hey, kittens, Jerry Falwell has been in the hospital... he was originally in critical condition ... recent reports say that he is "doing better"....

skittles



"The problem with political jokes is how often they get elected."



"Closed minds always seem to be connected to open mouths"

[Urn of Osiris]

Thespia, those are exactly the reasons he will never be given that position of power, and that is sad.



The world will always have people that can't think for themselves. That's why a$$holes like Falwell will always find a place in it. As soon as he kicks off another will be there to take his place. Hate, ignorance and fear seem to be the best tools of the trade. Organized religious groups depend on them.

Urn of OsirisA new idea is delicate. It can be killed by a sneer or a yawn; it can be stabbed to death by a joke or worried to death by a frown on the right person's brow. Charles Brower

[mandyanyone]

Hey there,



I understand everyones freedom of speech and the right to voice their opinions on this matter. But how about showing a lil bit of sympathy to those who do care about the pope and the catholic religion. Some of us here do still have beliefs beyond that of wiccan and atheist. I am not trying to be rude or inconsiderate of those who have voiced their opinions. But as a Catholic, it was really a sad time to see him pass. By all means, I am not trying to push a religion on anyone and by no means do i practice it. But show sympathy to those who might.



Thanks,

Mandy

"Introductions are tricky in a lesbian relationship. It's a word game. To my friends she's my lover, to strangers and family members in denial she's my roommate, to Jehovah's Witnesses at the door she's my lesbian sex slave, and to my mother she's Jewish and that's all that matters." ~~~Denise McCanles

[oneyedchicklet]

Well said Mandy. I am not Catholic however, I am Protestant. I do have sympathy for those who are Cahtholic and are mourning the loss. Yes, we will be hearing a lot in the weeks to come about the election of a new Pope. But thats a part of life. If you don't want to hear about it or watch it, don't turn your TV or radio on.



Love to All,

Barb

Now serving Bitter, party of one. Your table is ready.

[Urn of Osiris]

I'm Catholic but to me he's just a man, like any other man in a powerful position. His purpose is to govern the church and not to be worshipped. It is sad that he has passed. Perhaps his death can bring hope instead of the stagnant backwards thinking the church is still spewing.



No offense to any kitten but the thread clearly isn't a mournful one.



As someone eloquently wrote...



"The key is to teach the values of FIDELITY, MONOGOMY and ABSTINENCE."





I personally thought the key value of Christ was love - for the neighbour or stranger. How can people believe that Christ would care if a couple very much in love have sex? If I was a Christian, I'd be horrified at the state of the Church today, politically, socially and morally. It alienates people and has unrealistic goals. People are going to have sex, people are going to use condoms, and to waste time telling them not to is ridiculous. The world has so many problems, why focus on controlling and restricting love?



The web page

Urn of OsirisA new idea is delicate. It can be killed by a sneer or a yawn; it can be stabbed to death by a joke or worried to death by a frown on the right person's brow. Charles Brower

Edited by: Urn of Osiris  at: 4/4/05 5:20 am

[AmbersSecretAdmirer]

The Pope was a man who did a lot of good, there is no question. He was also someone who did a lot of harm, there is no question. To me, he is just a man. I didn't know him personally and I do not mourn his death, although I will admit I am relieved for him that his suffering is now over.



I too am tired of the ghouls, popularly known as the Press, hanging over him like a voyeuristic mass. It sickens me to my soul.



To those who mourn, I empathise, but cannot grieve with you as I feel the world could now be a better place, depending on who succeeds him.



As for Falwell, I care less for him than I do for the Pope, and I will leave it at that.



In answer to the Willow and Tara question, I think they were more spiritual than religious (although the odd showing of a religious ceremony would have been a positive thing). More importantly to them, was their faith and love in each other.

Tara & Willow Together Forever!!! Blessed Be Eternally!!!

[WebWarlock]

I was not a fan of either man, JPII or Regan, but I will given them their credit. Both did have a hand in bringing down communism (sure it could have died under it's own weight, but they did do something to speed it up). Both were intelligent men (again, not a fan at all, but I can recognize a simple truth) and both were eloquent speakers.



I give JPII credit apologising for Galileo (only 350 too late) and for stating that there is scientific merit to Evolution (something Kansas still hasn’t figured out).



But his stance on many issues, foremost gays and women, were so ridiculously behind the times that I wondered what century he was living in. For that he will be somewhat lesser in my mind than he is for many others.



In the end I know many Catholics will mourn him, and for that I wish them and him peace. I won’t speak ill of man I don’t know, never met and had little baring on my life.



I remember when JPII came to his office. As a young pre-teen there seemed so much mystery and mysticism. The process is archaic and yes outdated and backwards, but it is still fascinating.



Plus there is the long held belief among some “End Times” cults that this next Pope is the last one, or next to the last one, depending on who you ask.



Warlock

Web Warlock, web.warlock@comcast.net, The Other Side.

Liber Mysterium: The D20 Netbook of Witches & The Dragon and the Phoenix: New Adventures of Willow and Tara

"We’re gonna light up the dark of night like the brightest day in a whole new way."

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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But show sympathy to those who might.

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I am not into the speaking no ill of the dead thing, but I am well aware that a lot of decent good people are upset and mourning his death and I can understand why they would be. That is why I have not even come close the expressing what I think of him and the institution he led.



Last year I started two daily threads, once for the loss of our Queen Juliana and later her husband prince Bernhard. It was a sad time for a lot of people in my country. I started those threads to express my own sadness, but I certainly did not expect anyone here to commiserate or to refrain from posting critical comments about the monarchy or the deceased. A few people posted expressing their sympathy and that was nice, but if no one had then it would not have been a big deal. All I had to do was turn on the TV here and watch the countless interviews, documentaries and images of people mourning to know I was not alone in my sadness.

Edited by: DrG at: 4/4/05 4:32 pm

[jixer]

Hello Kittens-



As a Catholic I find the title of the thread unjust and not a little patronizing. We were on opposite sides of the spectrum of our religion and he was from a generation and background I can only imagine but I respected him. He did not want the job, but in the end did it as well as he knew how. He had the courage to apologize, stand up against Nazism, Communism ( I disagree it would have just died under it's own weight without JP II and Reagan/Thacher-it would have been a murder-suicide) even Consumer/Capitalism, and to endure an example of life until natural death.



One thing I would like to say in his favor is that he pushed to the forefront of the Church the concept of Divine Mercy, reminding us that God is loving and has more mercy than we can possibly use up.



His generation of those who were adults in the great upheaval of World War II is for all intents and purposes gone, and the world that formed him a memory. May we hold onto the best of the past to build the future with, and for the rest let 'be thee kind' be our watchwords.





Thank you for your time,



Jixer

[sam7777]

As an ex-catholic, I found JPII's policies set back Vatican II and drove me away from the church. As such I feel neither sadness nor relief. He stuffed the cardinal's college with reactionaries like himself so nothing will change. I left the church and the policies of JPII and men like him far behind. I look forward to a day when who is pope doesn't matter.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 4/4/05 11:33 am

[mandyanyone]

Quote:

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but I certainly did not expect anyone here to commiserate or to refrain from posting critical comments about the monarchy or the deceased.

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I understand that some people are going to express their negative opinion on this matter, as well as those who will say their positive opinions on this. But being someone who can have sympathy for both sides. I think it is a lil disrespectful what some of the people here have said. Regardless of whether they care or not. Have a little bit of consideration for others who are reading this.

Quote:

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I look forward to a day when who is pope doesn't matter.

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It's not that it matters. It's that people care.



"opinions are like a$$h0les..everyone has them..so keep yours to yourself"

"Introductions are tricky in a lesbian relationship. It's a word game. To my friends she's my lover, to strangers and family members in denial she's my roommate, to Jehovah's Witnesses at the door she's my lesbian sex slave, and to my mother she's Jewish and that's all that matters." ~~~Denise McCanles

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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"opinions are like a$$h0les..everyone has them..so keep yours to yourself"

---

If only the vatican had heeded that bit of wisdom instead of treating us to insights such as this:

Quote:

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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...108349.stm



Vatican drive to curb gay marriage

The Vatican says homosexuality goes against "natural moral law"

The Vatican has launched a global campaign against gay marriage in an attempt to reverse the spread of legislation in Europe and the Americas that permits it.



In a strongly-worded 12-page document signed by the Pope's chief theological adviser, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Church brands homosexual unions as immoral, unnatural and harmful.



The Vatican's stance has been greeted with dismay by opponents who say it runs against human rights conventions and is out of touch with the modern world.



It comes a day after US President George Bush - a Methodist Christian - spoke out against the idea of same-sex marriages as church leaders met in Minneapolis to debate the appointment of a gay bishop.



"There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God's plan for marriage and family," the Vatican document says.



To vote in favour of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral

Vatican document

"Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law."



A small number of countries have legally recognised same-sex unions, including the Netherlands, Belgium and two provinces in Canada.



Other countries, such as France, Germany and Argentina, allow homosexual couples to register their partnerships with the local civil authorities and to obtain some of the social benefits available to heterosexual couples.



Even Catholic Croatia has recently passed a law giving homosexual couples the same legal standing as unmarried heterosexual couples.



Hitting back



BBC Rome correspondent David Willey says the Pope is worried that other European Union countries, including Italy, will follow suit and legalise gay marriages.



A sad document of closed-mind fanaticism...

Volker Beck

German Green party

However supporters of gay rights were quick to respond.



Near the Vatican's St Peter's Square, a small group of demonstrators from Italy's Radical Party held up banners reading "No Vatican, No Taleban".



Another critic, Italian parliamentarian and gay rights activist Franco Grillini, said the document was part of a "homophobic crusade" by the Vatican.



Other opposition came from Germany's Green Party - a junior partner in the government of Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.



Senior Green official Volker Beck on Thursday condemned "a sad document of closed-mind fanaticism".



'Sanctity of marriage'



The issue of same-sex marriages is particularly charged in the United States, where some lawmakers in the House of Representatives have proposed a constitutional ban on gay marriages to counter state laws granting legal recognition to gay unions.



The Pope's chief theological advisor, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

Cardinal Ratzinger wants to bolster heterosexual marriage

On Wednesday President Bush said: "I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman, and I think we ought to codify that one way or the other."



His remarks were seen as offering a sop to conservatives who were angered earlier this month after he distanced himself from the House proposal for a constitutional ban on gay marriage.



The Vatican document, entitled Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons, sets out a battle plan for politicians opposed to legislation permitting gay marriage and adoption by gay people.



Catholic politicians have a "moral duty" to publicly oppose such legislation and to vote against it in parliament, it says.



"To vote in favour of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral."



Non-Catholics are also urged to join the campaign to "defend the common good of society".



Our correspondent says the new Vatican document, published by the Vatican's orthodoxy watchdog, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, repeats arguments already given by the Catholic Church against same-sex unions.



It was published on the same day that the Israeli city of Tel Aviv granted same-sex couples the same discounts as married couples in what gay activists hailed as a step towards full integration in the Jewish state.



Gay residents of Tel Aviv who declare their union in a statement will be authorised to receive discounts for city services and sites such as sports centres and museums.

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Being part of the LGBT persuasion, this piece of recent history holds my special interest. I hope we won´t have to wait for 300 or 2000 years for a pope to apologize about that.

[sam7777]

Who is pope does matter when heads of nations like the US go to him for his imprint as Bush has done (I was in Rome when he came to visit). It matters when Bishops in the US attack US candidates for supporting abortion while ignoring those who support wars and capital punishment. Or when the church covers up child abuse. All this happened under one of the most centrallized papacies making JPII's complicity all the more. There is a difference between being disrespectful to people here and expressing a negative opinion of a public figure. I have no criticism for people who are saddened by the event but I don't believe that only the good things are allowed to be said about the pope or any other public figure. If you don't like the negative stuff, then just skip those posts. The title of this thread alone should tell folks that it is not a tribute only thread. Everyone has a right within board rules to post what they think about the pope for good or bad. This papacy has had little to celebrate for woman or GLBT folks IMHO.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 4/4/05 2:02 pm

[Warduke]

This is a GLBT friendly board, so is anyone really surprised by the comments in this thread?



Catholicism is NO friend to the GLBT community. And with that in mind, the comments in this thread have been a lot nicer than I thought they would be.

---

Firefox: One Browser To Rule Them All.

[mandyanyone]

That's true, as i said, everyone is entitled to state their opinion, whether it good or bad. I don't agree with what the Church says about gay marriage. I'm a lesbian. I'm against abortion, but I am for capital punishment. Argue with my mom and sister about this all the time. It's all death they say. But it's under different circumstances.



I am not trying to disrespect anyone by saying this. I was talking with a friend of mine and it's obvious that everyone here has different standards for different topics. When it comes to gay marriage, if someone says something bad about it, they are confronted about voicing their opinions. And i would voice my opinions to them as well.



I however, don't appreciate the fact that no matter how much people state freedom of speech. They feel that anyone who opposes them is directly attacking them in some sort of way.



You may not agree with what the CATHOLIC religion states, and what the CATHOLIC religion believes in. But that is no reason to bad mouth the MAN. He grew up in a different time than us. He has his beliefs and we have ours. He was trying to preserve his beliefs. He wasn't trying to force them on you. If you don't believe the way he did, fine. But it gives people no reason to speak badly about a man who has never personally attacked you. He was a man who lived his life as he wanted to. Let him die in peace and don't disrespect him because you're too small minded to just show sympathy for a lost life.

"Introductions are tricky in a lesbian relationship. It's a word game. To my friends she's my lover, to strangers and family members in denial she's my roommate, to Jehovah's Witnesses at the door she's my lesbian sex slave, and to my mother she's Jewish and that's all that matters." ~~~Denise McCanles

[sam7777]

mandyanyone: I have no criticism for people who are mourning or for the pope as a person. I only have criticism for his policies. And it's not disrespect to speak about the flaws of his papacy. However I do think that these remarks are disrespectful to folks on this board:

Quote:

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Let him die in peace and don't disrespect him because you're too small minded to just show sympathy for a lost life.

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I don't call people here names for mourning the pope. For example, you are not small minded but just sympathizing for someone that you cared about. Nor do I characterize the bulk of this board as:

Quote:

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Some of us here do still have beliefs beyond that of wiccan and atheist

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Many of us here have beliefs beyond that of wiccan and atheist. I am neither but respect the beliefs of those regardless of religion though I may criticize the stands of some religions. Catholicism is a religion with a very large and secular political interest and as such should be able to be criticized.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 4/4/05 2:26 pm

[Warduke]

Funny how you keep saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion and yet you call people small minded for those opinions.



If anyone wants to post something nice about him, they can. And if anyone wants to post anything not so nice, they certainly have to right to, and they don't need to be called small minded for their views either.



If anyone doesn’t like what’s posted in this thread, then they can just skip it.

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Firefox: One Browser To Rule Them All.