FIC: The Edge of Silence

[saule77]

Oh yeah , I'm enjoying this too... A LOT!



Great update as usual! VERY -worthy.



Glad they had the "Oz talk. I just wish Willow would get her act together and just Tara she loves her... My little Tara's heart is going to be all broken if she carries on...

Season 7: "Is this supposed to be some sort of sick joke?"
"Please continue with the story of failure"

[Triscuit7]

Hi Kittens - just wanted to stop by with a round of thank-yous. I'll start writing the next part tonight, so I might have something by Th at the earliest. Work is going to be a bit more stressful this week since I'm shorthanded due to a supervisor on vacation. Which could mean either I'll be really tired or I'll need to write lots. I'm hoping it will be the second. Darcy wanted me to point out that because of impatient Kittens her research time has decreased...we just need another 6 hours in each day is all. : --> Thanks for reading.



MadeinNZ - Hi Nicky. As I said last night in chat, I can't draw, so no diarama, sorry... And the angles do work. As for Tara's concern about hurting Willow, well, check out the playboy interview that Aly did. It's in the Kitten archives on the very last page - lets just say it's enlightening. Re: the Oz talk - I wasn't entirely sure how that would go over, but felt it was necessary, if only to set up more clearly what happens later. But there are still secrets, unfortunately - Tara's big one springs to mind.... Thanks for reading.



Ghostwriter - Hi. Glad you liked this update. I'm curious as to which warning you're happy that I included: health, squick, Oz or all 3? Willow has issues, Tara has issues - they don't overlap. I'm glad you're finding the fic believable. Thank you for reading.



The Inward Sea - Hi Sea. Currently I'm having difficulty determining angst levels - I was originally going to choose 6-8, but Willow in tears was an 8, so that's why I chose 6. Plus Tara can fool even me when I'm writing her - she's just so good at hiding hurt. The Oz conversation, as I noted above, worried me, but what they discuss so key to everything else in this fic. I had to have them discuss that, and privately seemed best, and since they're in bed when they're in private, Oz-discussion ended up there too. Hence the warning. Thanks for reading and the statement of trust.



spazz07 - Hi Nath. Sorry I made you waste your water. : --> I'm glad you continue to enjoy. Also I liked your comment about the Oz-talk giving Tara even more reasons to doubt. And Willow has to know that her decision not to come out, not to touch Tara, is her decision - and yeah, it bites... hard. Thanks again.



SlayerTazz - Hi Branny. Thanks. I love thuddies.



kukalaka - Hi there again. Apology accepted, but I live for feedback, love the stuff. Thanks for reading.



saule77 - Hi. Hey, I'm glad you're enjoying this a lot - BTW it is fun to write. And hey, I got a thuddie. Willow's act will come together, it just takes time - she does finally realize what her hesitation is doing to Tara. Thanks.

**********************


I brought marshmallows!

Edited by: Triscuit7 at: 9/16/02 6:36:56 am

[funkyasian]

Hey there!



you know...today i actually chose to read the update at work...god knows i was having such a horrible monday morning and wouldn't you know it...a little w/t goodness made it all better... - although it was definitely a challenge to not go .



steph

Nothing can cure the soul but the senses, just as nothing can cure the senses but the soul. ~ Oscar Wilde

[singgirl]

oh god.....

[Always E]

Just have to say as a general rule Mondays SUCK!!! That being said, this last installment was a great way to start an otherwise typical Monday. Of course now I have to explain the dazed expression on my face to my observant assistant.



Oh wait...if I explain in detail she'll be blushing all day...BONUS!!!



Thanks for writing such a touching and honest tale. I remember only too well my days of "does she...doesn't she?" Passion filled with Angst, what a great feeling, and you write it so well. Also gotta say I appreciate this particular bout of lovin'...the position is one of my favorites.<**GRIN**>



-E

[Kieli]

And AGAIN with me being totally meshugge and reading this while at my office. I'm pretty sure I just messed up my fiscal year profit/loss percentages that I was supposed to be calculating *sigh* Ich habe eine Schraube locker.



I was thinking about the rather frank (erm...in some cases I was thinking, "Sharing! Evil! Bad!") discussion about Oz and realised that I personally never felt that level of angst when discussing Diana's other partners. Oddly enough, I'm not even sure that she has felt that either but I guess she has because I still get snide comments every once in a while. I keep wondering if there are deeper issues there. You did an excellent job of making that part rather uncomfortable, Mel, even for me as the reader. Gotta hate that whole "been there, suffered through that" thing.





T.

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

Edited by: Kieli at: 9/16/02 8:44:26 am

[mollyig]

I started reading this early this morning before I went on a course . . . which turned out brilliantly, because when I got bored I went off to a happy place in my head. So thanks!



well, it’s like I have this ball of sunshine in my belly and your touch makes it send out flares. This was such a lovely line, so wonderfully evocative.

Adding up the total of a love that's true, multiply life by the power of two
Indigo Girls

[Puff]

I seem to say this every time but Wow. I think I forgot to breathe somewhere in the middle as well.



I really like how you have them slowly deal with their issues in this story. Willow is just coming into realisation that she is putting their relationship on hold really, by not telling her friends about them. And the parallels you draw between Tara and Oz are very interesting. I especially liked how Willow picked up on the fact that Tara wasn't freaked because Willow had loved a werewolf, but because she had loved a man.



Lot's of things for them to still work out and I look forward to reading them. Thanks

-----------------------
You know, it's a real deal relationship and that's why people can relate to it
Amber Benson

[kukalaka]

Quote:

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I live for feedback

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Funny, I got the impression that you're living for research...

--

It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

[Tulipp]

Ah, now I see what you meant last time when you said that you couldn't say much about the Oz/Willow discussion. Very well done; I appreciated that you allow Willow not to deny her past love for Oz. She did love him, and she loved him at a time when she liked boys, as you say, and she slept with him. That that can still be a mostly happy, if a little bittersweet, memory for her as she loves Tara more truly and deeply just feels right. And very true to her character.

[xita]

I know I keep saying that, but that position, now that really is the best Willow's starting to know what she likes and how to do things, hee.



But poor Willow is so confused, or rather not. She as much as admitted she loved Tara, but couldn't say the words. Then the end her realization that she was going to be in torture because she wanted to essentially, no other reason than she allows it. And as distracting as oz bits are, they make sense as part of Willow's thought process in preparation for NMR especially and the decisions she's going to have to make. Also makes sense as she tries to process just why exactly being with Tara feels so much better. And she has some of the answers, but not the important one, love.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Tara and Willow

Accept NO subsitutes

Edited by: xita  at: 9/16/02 11:44:57 am

[MadeinNZ]

Quote:

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check out the playboy interview that Aly did

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Yep - I've read this one before. Lets just say I look at amusement rides a little bit differently now.

------------------------------


Anya: I have finesse! I have finesse coming out of my bottom!

[Caro]

Hi !

First post in the pens ! But Melissa I couldn't stand it anymore. I had to tell you that I love your fic very much. I read it since the beginning. And you know what ? It's my favourite one. Usually I'm just a lurker because of my bad english. So I can't express myself very well. Hindered (is it the right word ?)by the fence of the language. So I can't give you good feedback. Not as much that I want. And you live for feedback, don't you ? But let me just tell you that your story is so intense, moving, realistic, different each time. And exciting. Arousing. Can you feel at least my enthousiasm ? One more reason to cherish Willow and Tara and to be obsessed by them. Did I mention that I am obsessed by your fic too ? Very disturbing (I'm haunted by such images ! Even at Work ! Oops) but so nice.

So despite my poor english, just thank you for your fic. Go on ! You can live for feedback but here there are kittens who live for your updates. And you have another big fan here.



Caro

A french kitten

[Thanatopsis]

Another amazing update. I love how you're working through Willow's confusion slowly, her trying to reason, figure out, analyze everything is so perfect. And her realization at the end that it's going to be a self induced torture only adds to the scrutiny of her situation. And patient Tara is still so wonderful, though I'm glad there's at least some acknowledgement and confrontation of her feelings over Willow's silence.

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"Yeah, 'tis the season. Whatever that means." Amends
Insist upon yourself and never imitate. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

[AutumnT]

Quote:

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Besides, you can always threaten me with limericks.

---

Ahem.



There once was a fic 'bout an edge

of silence, well that was alledged

But it was never really hushed

Filled with angst and skin flushed

kittens eager for each passionate pledge



Hot sex and Willow coming out

are the two things this fic is about

both make a great read

for each chapter we plead

So hurry before we all pout

Autumn

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Buffy Season 6: It grated, like something forced in where it doesn't belong.

[Lindy]

Ahhh, I just love this fic. It's all so real and true and damn, in retrospective it's so easy to say that this is even better than the show itself. You manage to discribe in such a vivid way that I think I am there, and boy who wouldn't wanna be in that place, haha



The fact that you don't shy away from the akward moments and angst-y parts of what all this means to Willow and Tara makes for a really catching read (Can you say that this way? Damn second languages, they never go as natural as your mother tongue ).



And ooh sensual, damn, hot!!



So many thanks for that

~~~~~~~
It's nothing. It's all.. nothing

Edited by: Lindy  at: 9/16/02 2:18:44 pm

[darkmagicwillow]

The Mayor's transformation was a disappointment even w/o the bad special effects. He was more of a threat beforehand than afterwards, but I guess he couldn't get too powerful or Buffy couldn't have stopped him.



Glory did have great clothes and the whole Ben/Glory duality, but she just annoyed me onscreen sort of like Dawn did. The combination of the two in season 5 wasn't good for me though there were some great episodes like Family and The Body. That's something I've noticed about later Buffy seasons after Joss started dividing his time with Angel. There are a few great episodes, but the overall story arc is weak.



Adam was the most boring one then the Master. I actually thought Warren worked pretty well as I believed that he was evil and hated him even before SR. Of course, he's rather painful to think about now.



As far as imperial qualities in the big bads, Warren was like one of the guys in the year of the four emperors, in well over his head and not realizing it until it's too late. Glory definitely had the decadence of one of the bad Julio-Claudians like Tiberius in his bad days or Nero. The Mayor though is the one who impresses me most as a good emperor like Augustus, ruthless and determined to stay on top but still concerned about his people.



Oral defences definitely count as a big bad of their own. Not something I want to remember going through, though come to think of I think my oral qualifiers were actually more painful.



You're right though that they should have read the evil overlord list! I'm going to keep the list as a reminder in my office when I start my path to global domination...

--
"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "   "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[Triscuit7]

Yippee. Doing the feedback happy dance here in NJ.





Sorry, that's back where it belongs now....



Thanks again. I think I can write now.



Ciao, Melissa

**********************


I brought marshmallows!

[Caoilin]

Great stuff, Triscuit. Lovely loving smut. Delicious.



Oh, and thanks for the Oz warning. I like that not only is it different, but also better. But I can't help but feel a bit squicky hearing about it - I think more because I don't want anything to hurt/come between our girls.



Speaking of squicky: stiff underwear? Oh dear.



Thanks for this,

Caoilin

[The Inward Sea]

I agree with Puff on this:

Quote:

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I especially liked how Willow picked up on the fact that Tara wasn't freaked because Willow had loved a werewolf, but because she had loved a man.

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I forgot to mention it before but it surprised me. In a good way. I already knew that Tara was afraid of Willow going back to boystown. But I didn't see it coming here.



Certainly Willow wasn't -couldn't- be a Big Bad. But from those, Glory is *still* my favourite. I also think that Adam was the most boring one. Warren was the most annoying. I reach a point where he was completely unbearable! His best moment was... Bored now!



LOL DMW! A comparison between BtVS' Big Bads and Imperials! THAT'S bookworminess But I concur with your choices...



About oral defences: I was so frightened by them at the beginning that I quit many times before trying once. Some ability was acquired through the years and now I'm very calm and collected when I do one.



I loved the Evil Overlord List! Thanks for it.



Hey, Triscuit... are you listening? I don't want to put pressure on you nor depriving Darcy of her research time, but... an update on Th... you said?





Sea

Edited by: The Inward Sea at: 9/16/02 10:03:12 pm

[tiredsoul]

**scrambles frantically to locate all the pieces** Now where is my … Oh, there it is. Phew, wouldn’t have been able to do much without {insert unmentionable here}. There. All back together. I won’t go into details but tape wasn’t involved, although sticky was …



Now where was I? Ah, right, the update



Excellent update. I really like how you’re handling Willow’s thought process and especially Tara’s reactions to it. She’s hurt but understanding. I can’t help but think that if we saw the girls having this honest of a relationship on the show, ME would never have been able to pull off the “choosing majick over Tara” storyline. Your handling of the Oz background is great and, I think, rather realistic. First loves are a tricky subject enough, let alone the gender issue on top of that. Did that make sense?



And yet again, you have pulled off the ever-important discussion while adding in the incredible sensual and hot sex. Just thinking about it now, I …







**comes to with a bump on the head** I’m okay.



As far as entertaining the Kittens on my poor knowledge of Greek mythology and such, I can only add my favorite Sappho quote: “The moon has set, and the Pleiades; it is midnight, and time passes, and I sleep alone.” Beyond this, I’m afraid my education is rather lacking.



However, to demonstrate my Buffy geekness, I might be able to answer DMW’s question on the shortness of the cast. I recall an interview some years back that said that when SMG was hired, they based the casting of the further female characters on being the same height or shorter. Aly was about the same height as SMG when the show first shot. It was a full year before the case reassembled to shoot the second season and by then, Aly had apparently grown a few inches. The casting of Seth and Amber afterward would probably have to do with Aly’s height. But then again, my memory could be failing in my old age.



--celia

---------------------------------

"That was just rude. Now I forget what I was saying."

[darkmagicwillow]

I think Willow could have been a great Big Bad if done right ... I still have a season 6 fic idea based on that which I might write someday, diverging from the show around Tabula Rasa. I think it would have to be a slowly corrupting process, starting with her facing something as bad as Glory or worse and having to go all out with dark magick and dark artifacts to stop her. Of course, she would have Tara in the end to save her.



You can't blame me completely for the comparisons ... it was Triscuit's suggestion. Oh, though I did have a thought regarding Claudius and the Roman conquest of Britain. I think in the long term it was a good thing; I've gone through the British Museum chronlogically and it's very clear that British art and technology improved greatly with the advent of the Romans and went a slow decline after they left until they were barely more advanced than the barbarians from outside the empire. It's also interesting to note that the countries that have formed from territories inside the Roman Empire were historically more advanced than those from the outside and this is true to a great extent even today--compare Western Europe to Eastern Europe. Admittedly, there are some exceptions, largely in the areas conquered by Islam. It's interesting and surprising to me that conquests can have such long term effects on culture.



Celia, I was right! It wasn't coincidence, it was a conspiracy! (-;



I also liked Willow's honesty about Oz with Tara though maybe she should have gone a little slower. Still, there is something about getting it all out in the open at once.

--
"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "   "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[The Big I T]

This exchange:



Quote:

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Maybe, Tara thought, it was just better because they truly loved one another. When she was ready, Willow would think of that explanation, too. She gazed up at her lover and nodded again. “Th-Thank you.”



“Thank you? I’ve done very little but hurt you today, and you say ‘thank you’? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is?” Willow shifted completely up on top of her, weight evenly distributed over her body, and took her face in both hands. “Don’t thank me – and don’t apologize either. It’s not your fault. I hurt you. Can you deny it?”



“No.” She was transfixed by the look in Willow’s eyes. She had a defender, a most ardent defender. Willow was her knight in shining armor and would face any dragon for her. Willow would even defend her from herself – which might or might not be a good thing, given her family history.



“You know, they say the eyes are the windows of the soul and well, I know that’s true. It’s why I can’t play poker worth a damn. So tell – you just went from hurt to misty-eyed to – what are you thinking?”



“That I don’t have to be afraid of dragons with you around, Lady Knight.” She savored the bittersweet moment. They were definitely taking turns today.

---

Without even trying, just by being who they are, they are absolutely the best and only thing in the world for each other.

[singgirl]

more?

[Triscuit7]

Good Morning Kittens (well morning for me…)!



Real Life scooped me up and carried me away yesterday - just the proverbial day from hell at the bookstore with everything happening at once, including a surprise visit from Loss Prevention. I'm a control freak and freely admit I have issues, but that plus everything else pushed me over the edge yesterday (& not in a good, prison way either - BTW is that possible: good and prison?). LP’s main purpose seems to be to make sure no one on staff is stealing – the LP investigator was far more interested in that than helping me prevent the bloody shoplifter (yeah, my regular guy) from making off with 15 books… I can already tell that Sat’s full moon is gonna be special. Sigh.



Update-wise, I'm behind. I have trouble writing Willow and Tara sweet stuff when I'm in a bad mood, which I was last night. What that means is that I have about half of a normal part written and an hour before I head to work again, so I won't update tonight. I will write like a fiend when I get home and I'll have something up tomorrow night. Sorry.



funkyasian _Hey Steph. Sorry your Monday was sucky, but happy that Willow and Tara helped you out. Um, thuds could be potentially embarrassing if you do them in public. Thanks.



singgirl – Hi. “Oh god” and “more” – I’ll see what I can do… Thanks.



Always E – Hey there. Mondays do suck, and unfortunately my “monday” corresponded with everyone else’s this week so that I was in a bad mood along with all my customers. My advice…no matter how tempting, don’t break your assistant – good ones are hard to replace.

Quote:

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the position is one of my favorites

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Y’know I love writing…I love feedback…and I love finding out all sorts of interesting info… Thanks for reading.



Kieli – Toni, Toni, Toni. Reading my fic at the office is not work productive. I should know - plotting scenes like that in my head while I shelve books causes all sorts of problems, mostly with the alphabet… Darcy and I never had/have that level of angst either and we’re buddies with all of her former girlfriends. Well, I hesitate to say it but, hey, I’m glad you were uncomfortable – means it worked, and that makes me do the happy writer’s dance which for me means bobbing around without much rhythm - I can’t skip either. And Toni, this is S4 so there will be more discomfort. I’ll post warnings when it’s bad… Thanks.



mollyig – Hi Molly. I’m glad my story helped you out and that you liked the sunshine/solar flare imagery. Thanks again.



Puff – Hi again. Breathing is important, you need the oxygen to get to your brain so that you can write feedback. Speaking of which the girls do have issues don’t they? I don’t think Willow enjoys the place she’s in right now; been there, done that, not fun. The Oz-Tara parallels are show-based and the available data are far less than what is available for say, a discussion of Buffy’s tastes in guys (physical stuff: Owen/Riley, Scott Hope/Parker Abrams). But I think the parallels work. And I think that if Willow had loved another woman, Tara would have been far less freaked; she’d still be worrying that she wasn’t good enough, but the intensity of her fear would have been less. Thanks.



kukalaka – Nope, I’m feedback, Darcy’s research. Not that I have anything against research… Thanks for reading.



Tulipp – Hey. So you spent some time in W. Phila., hmmmm? Clark Park, Dreamer’s Café, People’s Market ring any bells? And sorry I had to be coy in my previous feedback post – that was hard, because I just want to tell everything at once. Willow’s love for Oz needed to be expressed not only to herself but to Tara as well. Obviously whether it still exists is the focal point of NMR. ‘Nuff said. Thanks again.



xita – Hello.

Quote:

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that position, now that really is the best

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Somehow I just knew that with your tongue-fixation you’d think so… And Willow is a quick study, isn’t she? (Un)confused Willow just can’t say those three words; fortunately Tara can hear them. And apologies for the Oz-distractions, but as you agreed they are necessary.



MadeinNZ – Hi Nicky. You can keep the amusement park rides, my mind is boggled by the chain link fence… You know exactly what I mean too… Thanks.



Caro – Hi. Your English is quite good; you never want me to write even one sentence in French (or speak it – very bad accent, I would hurt your ears…) I love the series of adjectives that you used

Quote:

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intense, moving, realistic, different each time. And exciting. Arousing.

---

Thanks very much.



Thanatopsis – Hey there.

Quote:

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I love how you're working through Willow's confusion slowly, her trying to reason, figure out, analyze everything is so perfect.

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Thanks. Tara is patience, isn’t she? No one can miss that. But that apparently calm, serene façade hides so much; Tara just feels … soo deeply. Thanks for reading.



AutumnT – Thank you Autumn! (claps hands and spins around) Well, the next bit will be soonish, so you won’t have to pout long.



Lindy – Hi, glad you like it. You wrote

Quote:

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all so real and true and damn, in retrospective it's so easy to say that this is even better than the show itself.

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Well, it is considerably smuttier… I don’t have to worry about magical metaphors or censors wanting less touching. The awkward and angsty parts have to be there too. It might be nice to gloss over those, but that wouldn’t be true to the characters and it wouldn’t be a “real deal relationship” as Amber herself said. Thanks again.



Darkmagicwillow – Hi there. It’s not much of a stretch to make a parallel between Glory and Caligula. They were both a few bricks short and it affected their planning; the difference would be that Jinx and friends stayed loyal while the Praetorians didn’t. And I think the Mayor had some common elements with Cl-Cl-Claudius whom I can easily see making lists although that may have more to do with Robert Graves and Derek Jacobi than actual history. As for Warren - if I had been Willow, he wouldn’t have gotten off so easily…not that the skinning was fun to watch, and I don’t think I would have wasted my time at the Magic Shop playing with Giles. But then I’ve read the evil overlord list… Absolutely Willow could have been a great Big Bad, but that would have involved actually writing a coherent S6 without magic addiction story lines thrown in. Willow doesn’t crave magic for magic’s sake, she craves the power that magic gives her. And of course Tara would redeem her, not Xander. I had that argument at work yesterday… Xander of S6 just doesn’t work as a hero – the Xander of S3’s Zeppo would have… All events pretty much staying the same (in other words Tara being dead) it should have been Dawn or Anya who talked Willow down in Grave. Not Buffy, not Giles, not Xander. I’m actually leaning towards Anya because as a Vengeance Demon she “knows” what Willow feels and Tara was her true friend – but ME is stupid. Thanks again.



Caoilin – Hey. Squicky, yeah – that bit was squicky on several different levels. And the underwear, well… Thanks.



The Inward Sea – Hi Sea. I know that Tara’s concerns here sort of are major foreshadowing for Tough Love, but she has be worried – she is an even more insecure person than Willow is, she is going to worry how she compares with Oz – it seemed apropos to put it in here. Glad you agree. Thanks again.



tiredsoul – Hi Celia.

Quote:

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**scrambles frantically to locate all the pieces** Now where is my … Oh, there it is. Phew, wouldn’t have been able to do much without {insert unmentionable here}. There. All back together. I won’t go into details but tape wasn’t involved, although sticky was …

---

HeHe. Glad you found all the various…bits. That whole “choosing majick over Tara” thing? Well, I have to say that my least favorite episode of Season Sux is Tabula Rasa and one of my least fave scenes is in the bedroom in “All the Way”. They rub me the wrong way big time – I have far less trouble in accepting DMW than I do a Willow who would do a spell on her true love. It just makes me shudder. I don’t see it, it doesn’t feel true to me, and I hate the idea. I guess where I stand is pretty clear, huh? Come to think of it, that may be why I’m writing honesty in the S4 relationship. And I love the Sappho quote: “The moon has set, and the Pleiades; it is midnight, and time passes, and I sleep alone.” Very much what Willow was thinking on Monday night in this fic when she was in her bed in the room she shares with Buffy. Hehe. Thanks.



The Big I T – Hey. I love Willow, I love Tara. But Willow and Tara together is truly the best thing. And like you wrote, they are the best thing in the world for each other. Thanks for reading.

**********************


I brought marshmallows!

[Kieli]

Mel: Hmmm....had some trouble with the alphabet? That's ALL?! Hell I just had trouble breathing after that one so I can only imagine the level of self-control you have (and we'll skip that whole prison way of control too "grin) Don't worry about me and the angst thing...it's just my past issues coming to roost. Diana is close friends with all of her ex's too and for the life of me I can't figure out how she managed that (I can honestly say that every guy and girl I ever dated....which I can count on one hand, sad to say....I attempted to remain friends but it just wasn't possible )



I love the Caligula/Glory comparison but I was thinking more of the Julius Caesar/Glory or Nero/Glory comparisons. I guess I overlooked her depravity (but really, did she HAVE any perverseness that we could see?) and focused on her need for power and how intoxicating it was for her. Granted she was an actual Hellgod and Nero and JC just aspired to be gods, but the control freak in them just can't be denied. And in the end, it undid them all. Not so different from each other, no?



People's Market! Ooooohhh....I miss Reading Terminal so DAMNED bad *sigh* I miss South Street and Chestnut Hill, Manayunk and Society Hill, East River Drive and West River Drive (now renamed Kelly Drive...)....I even miss Robin Hood Dell (is it even still named that anymore???) and Valley Forge. It really does suck to leave one's hometown. I want to go back to Bucks County dangitall (I virtually lived in Newtown Square, Peddler's Village, New Hope and Washington's Crossing....it's where all us "rich kids" lived and went to school). Ok, enough OT talk. Continue to make me squirm, Mel. It may be good for my soul.



Toni

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

[darkmagicwillow]

I think you're right that Caligula is the best match for Glory. It's interesting to read of his early days and see how much his personality changed after his illness/injury (I forget which it was that changed him). You're right, it's good to have loyal minions. Another must for the evil overlord.



I could see the Mayor as Claudius too. He had a bit of awkwardness and humor that's hard to imagine in Augustus who was so dedicated to making himself the perfect model of a Roman leader. It's such a pity that Drusus and Germanicus died before they could suceed him, leaving Tiberius to take the empire. History would be very different.



You're definitely right about the magic addiction. That was the point where I threw my hands up in despair about the season. There was so much potential in the dark Willow storyline and they threw it all away with that stupid, stupid idea. Unlike you, I actually could see Willow feeling the icy desperation of having made a terrible mistake with Tara (which I think she'd view any argument as being after "Tough Love") and casting the forget spell in that moment of panic in an attempt to fix the past. I don't think it's directly power that would draw her into darkness, but her urge to fix things and make the world a better place.

--
"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "   "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 9/19/02 12:43:40 pm

[Kieli]

And it wasn't just the decline with Tiberius....the whole empire started sliding into the crapper with the constant fluctuation of Caesars....one minute weak, the next minute strong, the next minute total lunatic. Hmmm....ok now THAT sounds like a Glory thing if I ever heard one

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

[darkmagicwillow]

Yes, the lack of an accepted means of succession outside of civil war had to be one of the worst features of the Roman Empire. They generally did great in the periods with a well defined succession of power, but there were so many periods when that wasn't the case.



It does sound like Glory, which brings another idea to mind. I think Willow becoming dark would go much like Rome becoming a great power. First, the Celts came and sacked Rome so they gradually built up a military and took some nearby cities for defensive purposes, encountered more threats like Carthage, and ended up ruling the Mediterranean world before they knew it. I think Willow would become dark defensively, to protect the ones she loved, gradually expanding her definition of defence until she was on her way to ruling Sunnydale.

--
"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "   "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[The Inward Sea]

I've been missing a BtVS-Imperial Rome crossover! What was I doing?



First things first: I still can't see Willow as a real Big Bad. Even if it was written by Shakespeare... which ME is certainly not. But there's a lot of potential in the dark Willow storyline, as DMW says. It would have been much more intresting, much less hurting to watch and Tara could still be alive and evolving by herself



darkmagicwillow wrote:

Quote:

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Oh, though I did have a thought regarding Claudius and the Roman conquest of Britain. I think in the long term it was a good thing

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I agree. Even more if you consider that the Museum of London would be half as fun without the roman remains And that so many cities wouldn't be named as they are now! (Oh, this is fun fun fun... we are talking counterfactic History! *Imagine if the romans never conquered Britain*)



Triscuit: Your regular shoplifter was taking 15 books? That guy must be amazing. Do you know what does he do with them? Reselling perhaps? Can't you have him ridden from the Mall? I find it's odd that the same guy does this so often. He must know you'll be watching him the moment he steps into the bookstore



RE Imperial Glory: Can´t see Glory as Caligula. But I agree with Kieli on the Glorywise way the Caesars went and -again- with darkmagicwillow about Willow becoming gradually dark as Rome become *gradually imperial* I have this feeling that never was properly resolved in the show that Willow's friends weren't so against Black Magick when it was convenient for them.



Sea