Creative help thread - Ask a question! Read the first Post!

[Catwalks]

i've got it!!! I found it at http://www.vdchelp.com but you need two tinra progs and real to get the conversion - so I'm buggered!!!



I could send you the two Tinra proga + the Real crawling if you'd be a star and run the conversion for me



think up a suitable payment!!!



Belle

"Dude! like you're getting in the Boob light alright!" - AB Stuff photoshoot

[Rally]

I did finally track the damn software down as well. However, I am at work and I haven't been able to get the Crawling vid off a site yet.



I did a test conversion on one of my own rm vids, it converted it to an avi, but I had not picture, only sound.



Anyhow let's take this to email rallyv@yahoo.com"> rallyv@yahoo.com and we can get it sorted out.

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...more like the evil laugh of ... you're a dead man!

[Thanatopsis]

Okay this is more a general writing question than anything else. Does anyone know the difference between putting a line break in between paragraphs (which someone told me is called a cotch) and putting asterisks in between?



paragraph, blah, blah, blah

***

new paragraph, yadda, yadda, yadda



verses



paragraph, etc.



new paragraph and so forth

-----------------

"This world's no fun."
"You noticed that too?"

Edited by: Thanatopsis at: 5/17/02 2:47:44 pm

[tommo]

Hm. Speaking from personal usage, I generally use asterisks to indicate a change of the current scene; I suppose in the same way that television uses commercial breaks. It just helps to divide up long pieces of text for me. I'm not sure if there are any rules about asterisks though. And I certainly wouldn't use them instead of paragraphing, as that would break up the text too much. Um, I think.

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"Smut now." - Dark Madfic Tommo

[Rane018]

cause i cant quite write END SCENE to end a scene, ya know... i like them a lot as a device to break up the scenes, change locations, people, etc... also some writers use ~~~~ squigglies or --------- dashes. anything is cool by me.

[Willow85]

Well, first I wanna say hello to every one.

And now to my problem. I wrote a fanfic in german and I'd like to show it to the english speaking people but I'm not very good with the whole translation thing. I mean, I can speak english and I can write in english too, but I think that I might make to much mistakes.

So, anyone out there who speaks german and english who could help me translate my story?



Thanks



Oh and by the way, I love this board. There are so much talented writers and I love to read what others wrote.

[heironyma]

How W/T centred does a W/T cenrted thingy have to be? Or, to get down to specifics, can I post my AU S6 that was written cheifly because of pissedoffness about the sucky W/T stuff in the hum hum real world? It also, you see, has storylines about other characters. But there is a whole proper hugeo W/T arc that's developing every episode.

[xita]

It sounds like Pezzky's fic, and that was posted here. Sounds good to me.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow and Tara Love

Truly and Forever

[earthlovinwicca]

I am just starting to write my first fan fic and I need a little help. Could someone explain to me what happens at college graduation in the States. I'm from the UK so it might be different here and I want it to be as true a possible.

Thanks

ELW

Edited by: earthlovinwicca at: 5/26/02 3:35:20 pm

[Bagheera]

Willow85:



My German is very poor BUT I would love to help you out if I can (and it would help me revise my German).



Willow liebt Tara fur immer. How was that?

[Rane018]

I wanted to get you kittens input on a little request I have so we can discuss and figure something out together...



I must admit I haven't had time to read all the fics on the board so I don’t even know if I’m talking crazy here 'cause I wouldn't be able to give an concrete example or something.... But could we please try to keep the fics at least 3/4 W/T. if I wanted a fic with w/t or W or T every few chapters I would go elsewhere. This is supposed to be a W/T centered fic board. We certainly can discuss what a w/t centered fic mean to you but to me it means that. Wholesome delicious w/t goodness in every drop.



I don’t mind other characters being in the fic either, definitely not what I mean cause that makes the fic well rounded and interesting and many writers do it well, but I would just appreciate it if W/T remained the main characters/focus of the story.



should we debate over the length of sub plots that cater to other characters and have nothing to do with W/T as well?



As for fics that contain more of a rounded cast of characters and not so focused on just those two fantastic adorable witches we come here to read maybe we can use outside links for them. I know I'm in the mood sometimes for full BTVS cast fics the have W/T in them but not when I come here. I come for the two lesbian gay type loverwiccas.



so, umm... yeah. I'm all over the place with this but I just wanted to get this out.



****************************************

*We gotta get you a nice companion rat that you can love and play with and grow attached to 'til it leaves you for no good reason. Wont that be fun?* Willow in Smashed

[tommo]

I know exactly what you mean, Rane. And I'm afraid that I'm guilty of doing exactly this in Final Exam. I can post it up on my website I guess, if the general consensus requires it. That's not a problem.



Sorry.

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"Smut now." - Dark Madfic Tommo

[Katharyn]

I am personally of the belief that yes this is a W/T focused site and must remain so, but I have never had a problem with any fic that has been posted here - simply cos the moderators (bless them) weed out the "off-topic" fics relatively quickly. If I do not liek a fic... I quietly stop reading it (and this is not what has happened to most of you - that is simply lack of time to read... let me finish this one and I will catch up I promise!)



Personally I do not read fics that are linked to off site. Period. I come to Pens for fic. I get fic on Pens. That is it. Off site links are fine for some or most and I will look up fic in archives but it affects the dynamic that I love here in Pens and stands to fracture the writers from Pens. Which would be a shame if a writer is simply linking from Pens to their own site then they can link from many sites... and then they might not be writing for Pens at all. Just advertising here.



I myself am guilty of having wideranging casts of characters but I remain W/T focussed - I have no interest in anything else. The real problem is that the decision is a very hard one for anyone but the writer to make as only the writer knows what is going to happen.



The writers that we have here, and this will increasingly be the case as (sadly inevitably over time) this gets whittled to a "harder" core, know what is W/T... and what is not.



I think it would be a shame to stifle certains types of fic. I agree that it should be highly W/T focussed but it is easy, in a large fic, to require a set-up period of parts that might not be 75% W/T at all simply to get to the W/T goodness later - which in total gets to that mark. The action/mystery etc fics spring to mind in this regard. They can require alot of early setup to pay off later. Which would make guidelines hard to follow without including "extraneous" material that does little for the story the writer wants to tell.



But yes, the writer has to take responsibility for advising on content up front. W/T is a given. More generally some fics have very little by way of explanation or notes up front of what sort of fic it is. But that is just my personal bug bear... and Ruth... don't you go anywhere!



Essentially if Tara stays gone *sigh* then I want W/T fic to continue and to me... that needs a certain degree of flexibility from readers and the ability to switch off. That is not to say "any fic of any type as long as it mentions W/T," but we have to allow writers to tell their stories and trust them to keep it within the focus of the board. Then it is the readers choice to stop reading. At least the fic is there.



I am probably saying all this wrong... I agree about the focus... and the amount, most of what you say in fact Rane, it is just the method that I have a problem with.



Just a humble opinion.



Katharyn

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You hear that baby? I am going nowhere.

[Rane018]

Ruthificus… I wasn’t thinking about Final Exam, or any in particular when I suggested outside links for broad fics. However, now that you bring it up, this is a good example of a fic containing peripheral characters and maybe plots that are dealing mainly with W/T or with Willow or Tara separately. From what I’ve read so far most updates deal with W/T or them individually and I find nothing wrong with that. Like I said, I love lots of characters involved in W/T stories as long as it mainly deals with W/T.



So basically I vote please don’t… re: linking to your site.



Kath- Some people may not want to link to outside sites but I have and I would if I’m interested in the summary. How would this fracture the writers from DCP? If someone wants to link their W/T fic more power to them and us. I’ve stumbled upon sites that have various pairings and there might be one fantastic W/T fic I’ve never read before. Are you saying that just because they write for other couples we shouldn’t be aware of it? If they read the FAQ and know what DCP is about and they have a fic that includes our prerequisites then what would be so bad about them “advertising” it here? Not everyone posts here or on Willtara because of this fact. If someone is taking the time to write a sweet W/T fic I want to read it whether they’ve written for other couples or not.



I myself am guilty of having wideranging casts of characters but I remain W/T focussed - I have no interest in anything else. The real problem is that the decision is a very hard one for anyone but the writer to make as only the writer knows what is going to happen. The writers that we have here, and this will increasingly be the case as (sadly inevitably over time) this gets whittled to a "harder" core, know what is W/T... and what is not.



What decision are you talking about? Keeping the fic mainly W/T oriented? I’m thinking this is a W/T centered fic board it’s not too much to ask to keep the W/T to a maximum. Plus, having boundaries could even be better for fic writers look how the flaming O spell turned out.



Set up is fine, it’s necessary, and maybe because most people post in chapters that you think this may be what I’m referring to. No. Actually I wait for a few chapters to be posted up before I cut and paste and then read as a whole. I don’t like little chapters (though I’ve done it myself plenty of times and I’m working on stopping that). With larger updates I find I am able to read and invest myself in the fic, not cut myself off just as it’s leading up to W/T. Obviously in the beginning W/T may not be the main focus, but as long as the rest of the fic is… that’s what I’m suggesting. Sometimes I’m in the mood for a long introduction and other times I’m in the mood to just jump right in.



AU is perfect for such ‘a set-up period of parts that might not be 75% W/T’. However, we need to keep in mind that unless a fic is AU we really do not need much introduction. (my opinion) Our audience knows the characters and situation already if you note properly and spending four pages introducing the characters and their situation can get a bit stale. Not that anyone’s done this here, I’m just saying in general.



More generally some fics have very little by way of explanation or notes up front of what sort of fic it is. But that is just my personal bug bear...



Not just yours. We all need to make sure the guidelines are followed though. Remind the author in the thread to list the requirements on their thread. I posted them up in this thread for someone a while back and I think they may be included in the FAQ. editing to add: oops. i guess it isn't in the faq. i'm going to post it there now.



I also agree the reader has a choice to stop reading. It could be simply because they do not like the format of the fic, or it’s not their cup of tea or whatever it may be… but flexibility from the reader is different from flexibility of the writer. Like I said this is a W/T fanfic board. I come here to read W/T. W/T need to be the focus of the story and for me I’d like the focus to be mainly 75 %. That is what I’d like to discuss. How much W/T is required.



I am probably saying all this wrong... I agree about the focus... and the amount, most of what you say in fact Rane, it is just the method that I have a problem with.



What exactly do you mean by methods, Kath?



******



Also there was another thing I wanted to discuss but I think I’ll wait until Xita gives me the go…

Edited by: Rane018 at: 5/27/02 2:10:38 pm

[xita]

I would hate to set a percentage of w/t. Certainly, I would expect at least 50%, anything less would not be acceptable, and we have shut those down before. Anything above that is kind of tricky. I want to encourage more because I am all about that W/T interaction, the more the better, but I wouldn't want to set a percentage. I think most of the fic, here fits within a very high percetange. If you find yourself with too much other stuff, you should ask yourself, why am I posting that here, also don't be surprised if you get an email from a mod.



Of course, the big picture in the end should result in a story that is w/t focused, I mean where the point is to get them from point a to point b, or the totally pointless, totally focused, W/T Goodness fic. Certainly other characters can play a part in this process but the story shouldn't be about them.



I am also going to add an item to the FAQ. That people should def. check out if they want to write fic that gets posted here.

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Willow and Tara Love

Truly and Forever

[tommo]

Okay, now the paranoia has been nicely diverted, heh. Thanks. I read these few posts about this issue with some interest, because you see, generally I find it difficult to write any kind of sustained fic without bringing in other characters. I'm only speaking for myself here, by the way.



I agree with the idea that stories should be W/T focused; that's a given, but I'm a little worried that this might start transposing itself to a structured way of writing. See, that doesn't allow for creativity to grow. In most of the successful stories I've read here on Pens, I think the ones that I've liked the most have given an ensemble cast, albeit one that revolves around Willow and Tara s the central characters. That works best for me personally, as I see a realistic version of the show in writing based on an ensemble performance.



However, Sassette's vignettes have proved to be delightful reading, for example, centering wholly around Willow/Tara interaction.



I know exactly what you do mean though, Rane. I don't like reading what I'm led to believe are Willow/Tara stories and then find myself taken off into another storyline entirely. That's not what I want to read on Pens. But with so many different styles and writers, it's often really difficult to reach a consensus that will suit everyone who posts here. So I'm not entirely sure what a realistic solution to this may be, or even if there is one.

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"Smut now." - Dark Madfic Tommo

[Katharyn]

I think Xita's additions to FAQ and her reply above pretty much deal with this now though it it was a important issue... especially in context.



Basically like everything else on the board it is first the writers responsibility (as they know the whole picture) and then they are subject to be asked by a mod if that focus looks to be slipping. Ultimately they might be asked to stop posting a story but the chance for creativity is the important thing here to me. Mod's checking with writers can work well I think (says I who went the other way round and asked mods for judgement in advance!)



Works for me... cos my concerns, badly expressed were what Ruth said better... ish.*S*



Katharyn

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You hear that baby? I am going nowhere.

[heironyma]

Well, hum. See, now I don't know what to do. My thingy is definitely not 75%, being more of a pastiche episode-guide, and though definitely focussed on W/T and their characters contains a fair amount of development for other characters too. The pastiche element means sticking to rules, like every regular appears somewhere in the episode. et cetera; also W/Ts storyline doesn't make much sense out of a context. Thing is, this is pretty much the only site I ever go to (not, on the whole internet, obviously, just...etc etc). There's no way I'd post it anywhere else - much too lily-livered. And I don't even Have my own website. Plus, I like the nice intelligent people here. That wasn't smarminess however much it might sound like it. Equally this means I don't want to annoy them.



Tum-te-tum. That's probably the longest post I've ever made, and it's pretty much all blathering.

[Katharyn]

Heironyma, do not get too carried away with the above. Nothing has really changed here as a result of the change to FAQ and Xita's post. As Xita said this is not about percentages at all. If you are focussed on W/T if it is their story then that is fine.



Other characters allow you to tell that story so that is not a problem. As long as the other characters are not the reason for the fic then you should be okay.



Regarding the above... there is context behind the original post (as I understand it.) The context is unimportant here... but the fact that there was one is more important to your question. This is not some change in board policy to all fic... (as I understand it and I stand to be corrected)... just a tightening up of the existing guidelines.



My best recommendation if you are really unsure is to send the fic, as it currently exists, to a beta reader from the board (if you have not already) specifically asking their opinion on this matter. If they cannot reassure you then send a brief synopsis to a moderator and ask their opinion.



And hey even if this is not suitable, worst case, the mods are not just going to shut the thread down! No one is going to rant at you for investing your time in writing fic. I also post nowhere else. If I cannot post here then I will not be posting anywhere... The mods will just send you an e-mail (as I understand it) asking your intentions of the fic, where it is going... that is it - a nice friendly e-mail. And that is if it might not be suitable... which from your description is not a problem anyway!!



Well I am just rambling now... but I would not want anyone to worry about this. We need and want W/T fic... all people are looking at is making sure it is W/T fic... Stay within the FAQ and with a W/T focus and you will be fine... (Once again as I understand it!)



Katharyn

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You hear that baby? I am going nowhere.

[forrister]

I have been reading all this and thinking about it lots. I doubt if my fics make the grade as they don't have 75% W/T scenes. Then I realised that isn't what counts. W/T are at the center of my stories. Its about how they react to things, and how others react to them. The entire scooby cast is there but there is a certain W/T viewpoint to the whole thing.



I consider my works to be Willow/Tara stories even when I have scenes that not only don't involve them, but aren't even about them. It's the way the whole thing comes across, not any one scene. You can't count words or scenes and come up with a statistical cut off. I couldn't write that way.



On the subject of linking to offsite stories, I'm not really in favor it. If you can't post it here then why advertise it here? Or if we go have linking why not have a separate link thread for all links - so that we can avoid them if we want. I



I like Pens. I like the authors and their stories. I don't really want it regulated to a T. I think the moderators are currently doing a sterling job of steering us in the right direction and I see no real need for any changes. YAY MODS!!!!





Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere!

(If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!)

[CaptMurdock]

See, this is something I've been wondering about. I'm getting the (admittedly paranoid) impression that the Kittens, by and large, aren't liking my latest fic, Sidekicks' Holiday, mainly because the story focuses not only on W/T but also Fred and Gunn. I've tried to keep it as 50-50 as possible, but maybe that's not enough in W/T's favor for the Kittens' taste.



I do like what I've done so far and I've set up a scene that I think is going to be a major hoot, but at the same time I don't want to write something that nobody is going to like.



(Gee, insecure much?)

______________________

"I love you all. I love you more than life itself. You're all f***ing mad." -- Ozzy as "The Dad," THE OSBOURNES.

[Rane018]

see, this is what i wanted. yay, kitties.



75% thing was not a "must have" (it was just an example thrown out there), and i didn't mean it as W/T only scenes either. i meant the story, major plot should revolve around W and or T . After reading much here everyone pretty much gets that though.



i love ensemble pieces but i dont want to read too many or long subplots with other characters here. like i said if i wanted general BTVS fics i'd go to a BVTS fanfic site. Kittens are incledibly good writers. i dont understand why you think this would be limiting if the majority of the story revolved around W/T. this isn't to say that other characters should not be brought into the fold, just have them kept to a minimum (for plot evolution, mini subplots, etc..). Pretty much all the fics here with a large cast of characters have W/T as the main focus of the fic and in most of the chapters. I cant think of anyone not doing that. i just wanted it re-iterated for future writers.



In the end it's really up to the writer to decide how they want to write the fic. Like Kath said if you're not sure just contact Xita. she'll let you know.



as for sidekicks holiday, capt., I'm cool with the the double couples. the you know i love you and i'd go to greece and do your dishes for you but... reading the Fred/Gunn sex scene here was a bit weird for me.



purrs and licks,

rane

Edited by: Rane018 at: 5/28/02 5:25:40 pm

[Sassette]

Subplot? What the frilly heck is a subplot?



*G*



But, to get this post somewhere vaguely near the subject ... I think it's safe to say that everyone realizes that the rest of the Scoobies and how W/T interact with them is a big part of who they are. Sure, you can have a great story where W/T go somewhere else and do something completely non-Hellmouthy ... but wouldn't it seem kind of ... off ... if they didn't even mention their friends? Perhaps I'm on crack - the world may never know *G*



On the other side of the coin, I do see that it's a precaution worth taking to point out that a slightly W/T-heavy fic that's really mostly about, say, Buffy's struggle to accept that her hair will never be quite as shiny as Dawn's isn't exactly right for this board.



Now, if the story were about Willow's struggle to accept that HER hair will never be quite as shiny as Dawn's - with a good dose of hair-actualizing-comfort-sex from Tara - we have a winner.



-Sass

The One-Plot Wonder

[Katharyn]

Is that going to be one of your vignette's Sass?

Looking forward to the sex already.



Katharyn

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You hear that baby? I am going nowhere.

[Sassette]

Heh ... it certainly could be, but only the people who were following this thread would get the joke *G* Of course, I'm finding that doesn't really bother me.



-Sass

[Rane018]

kinda sucks there's no sarcasm font...

[Sassette]

Heh ... about which part?



Generally speaking, I'm only serious about 10% of the time.



-Sass

[xita]

one plot wonder? hee , I really doubt it. I was going to make plot jokes, but bad taste.. so no.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow and Tara Love

Truly and Forever

[Sassette]

Oh, joke away. The bad ones are always the best.



And the plot of everything I'll ever write can be summed up as follows: Bad things happen, but then everything turns out okay.



-Sass

[Zahir al Daoud]

Just tossing in my own couple of pennies...



By "centered" I pretty much assume Willow and Tara are central characters, as in the story centers around them. I don't take that to mean (necessarily) that they must be "on stage" for 75% of the story. I can pretty easily imagine a fic where, for example, the example of their love is the catalyst for everyone else's actions but Willow and Tara themselves are "present" only half the time.



And likewise, methinks the explicitness of a given sex scene has something to do with its acceptability here. Maybe a good rule of thumb--the more explicit it is, the more likely it should be Willow/Tara. (I say "more likely" because I bow to the talents of writers who find wonderful ways to break any rules and make them work).



One more rule of thumb--whole chapters without either Willow or Tara in them need to be kept to a minimum.



Does all that make sense?

"O Let my name be in the Book of Love!
If it be there I care not of that other Book above.
Strike it out! Or write it in anew, but
Let my name be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kayam