Question for the legally-oriented Kittens

[Tarafied4Life]

Just wondering if there are any legal ramfications to checking yourself out of a hospital against a doctor's recommendations (ADR, or ADO, or whatever the acronym is). Thanks in advance for your help!

[Candleshoe]

I'm a UK lawyer, and this isn't quite my field.

I am using "you" when I mean"the person in question" it is just easier to type each time!

All I can think is that it might reduce your chances of success if you later wanted to sue. You wouldn't necessarily be able to argue that your medical treatment was inadequate, as you had essentially refused treatment.

You could always argue that you refused treatment because what you were getting was of such poor quality that you believed that you were at risk...anything is arguable, these days!

I'm sure someone cleverer than me, and more local to you, will be able to help....

[Tarafied4Life]

Thanks, Candleshoe:

All should be fine, then - I don't want to sue anybody, but when I checked myself out this morning the doctor who was treating me made it sound like I was doing something horrendously dire, and that there'd be some kind of consequences. Now that I know that's not the case I can rest easier. Thanks again!

[oneyedchicklet]

As someone who suffers from seizures, I've signed myself out AMA numerous times. There are no legal remifications with that. I'm also a volunteer, Nationally Registered EMT for the past 20 years. If someone refuses medical attention, we have them sign a form so we can't be sued. I hope you are ok.

HUGS
Barb

[kisstheviolets]

I would agree with my learned friend Candleshoe that leaving a hospital against medical advice would mostly just limit your ability to sue the hospital or physician. However, I think it is important to add that the decision to leave AMA can have legal implications for you specifically if your condition, whatever it is, causes harm to others or contributes to the commission of a crime. Let me give you an example:

Let's say you're having seizures or blackouts and are being treated in the hospital. You leave AMA knowing that you are seizure or blackout prone. You are later driving, have a seizure and are in an accident or you're at work and blackout and injur someone. The fact that you left AMA will be used against you in any criminal proceedings as it demonstrates willful negligence of the threat posed by your condition.

So while leaving AMA is legally mostly an issue of the hospital disclaiming liability for your decision, it can also limit your ability to disclaim liability for your own actions.

[Candleshoe]

Oooh, good point, kisstheviolets! I must have missed that Ally McBeal episode (which is where I learnt all my law, college was a waste of time!)

[kisstheviolets]

I must have missed that Ally McBeal episode (which is where I learnt all my law, college was a waste of time!)

damn, i never watched that show. surely i'd be at the top of my class if i had!

[Tarafied4Life]

Thanks, all - I really appreciate the advice; it was a little worrisome with my doctor going on and on about this like I was breaking the law or something.

oneyedchicklet - AMA! Thank you - that's the acronym I couldn't remember. And I'm sure I signed that form, too - I was kind of groggy at the time. Thanks for the info and the well wishes!

kisstheviolets and Candleshoe - Thank you so much for the info - fortunately, none of that's a worry, so it's all good. And I watched Ally McBeal - why didn't I become a lawyer? If I'd known that was good for study credit, I would have graduated by now!

I guess maybe I should provide a little context for this question, just so nobody worries I'm out there driving around having blackouts or something...the "medical attention," and I use the term loosely, that I turned down was a 48 hour stay in the hospital's psych ward to...wait, where is that paper...here it is! "48 hour observation...to ensure you are not a danger to yourself."

Okay, hold on...that probably sounds worse than not saying anything. Sigh. Alright, short short short version? I put my fist through my bathroom mirror last night (which is the end of the long version, which I won't bore anyone with) and broke it in three places (my hand, that is, not the mirror). Amy's out of town, so I drove myself to the hospital and got it looked after, and they kept me overnight for evaluation. This morning, while I was still doped up on painkillers, the doctor on duty asks me how I broke it. I give him the whole story, which I wouldn't have done if I was more alert, and he runs off to confer with his colleague (who I'm guessing was a staff shrink). He comes back and tells me they'd like me to stay in the psych ward for a couple days - they figured something about clinical depression or some such, and wanted to do some tests.

At this point, I politely tell the doctor to get stuffed and go to sign myself out, which is when he lays all this AMA stuff on me. Which is why I wondered about ramifications - making sure nobody's going to show up at my house or something. So, no worries, anyone - I'm not wandering around doing anything dangerous. And even if I do, I can't blame it on my doctor, so it's all good!

[FineyMcFine]

Well, Heather, ouch and wow and also - take care of yourself and if you need to talk, I volunteer myself. Hugs.

[Gatito Grande]

I put my fist through my bathroom mirror last night (which is the end of the long version, which I won't bore anyone with)

Tarafied, I think I speak for everyone here, when I say: don't worry about boring us. If talking would help you, in any way (from catharsis to mere distraction), then TALK AWAY.

GG We're The Kitten, after all: that's what we're here for! Out

[Candleshoe]

Yeah, Tarafied, talk away...on the board, PM, whatever. Take care, honey....

[JustSkipIt]

Heather,
Like the others said, if you'd like to talk, I'm here. Also, I hope your hand heals quickly.

[hahler]

Dont feel bad i have done that also. Not with mirrors but with walls. Like xander did in the body episode, makes you feel good for a split second and then it hurts like hell. PM me if you want to vent


hahler

[Twisted Minstrel]

This is a question for a UK kitten - would a judge starting a new trial announce a case will take several months? Right from the beginning? How could they determine the length right at the beginning? Or would the trial time be put down for a set period (one week say), and from there they determine the estimated length?

I hope that makes sense....*scratches head*

[kisstheviolets]

this might not help much since you're asking about the UK, but in the US you generally have an idea of how long a trial will last (based on the number of witness, how long their depositions were, how much evidence needs to be introduced - you have to have witnesses to do that - etc) and they're scheduled for roughly that amount of time but can obviously take shorter or longer. the court will generally have some ballpark figure though.

[Candleshoe]

TM, it does make sense! I should point out at the start that I am not a full-time litigator (I like clients who are happy, not jailed), but I know a few and have done a little bit of court work in my time...

The final hearing is usually preceeded by a bunch of pre-trial hearings and reviews. Often the same judge sits for all the hearings, but not always.

Time would be set aside by the court for the final hearing to be heard and this could be a day, a week, or months. The courts are usually very good at guessing how long it will take, because lists of witnesses and evidence and stuff has already been submitted leading up to the final hearing.

If it doesn't finish in the time slot available it is adjourned and re-listed for the next available time slot. Usually this is quite soon, normally the next day, but it could be a couple of months if the judge decides that time is needed to do something new (find someone, or run tests or whatever).

It doesn't make good fiction, or TV drama, but almost nothing is a surprise in court in reality. UK courts take the idea of "full disclosure" very seriously, and ambushing people with exciting new case-breaking information is actually a bit of a no-no. Getting witnesses to say the same thing in the box that they said in your office the week before is always a bit tricky though - and the golden rule for lawyers is never to ask a question that you don''t already know the answer to. An unexpected answer is just as likely to bugger your case as the other side's! Don't worry about being too realistic if you are writing fanfiction though, we read it to escape reality!

Hope this helps. Shout if you need more info!

[Twisted Minstrel]

Thank you very muchly, Kiss the Violets and Candleshoe...esp. for the UK insight. It isn't for fanfiction (though a lesbian-themed court thriller...hmmm....), just a personal inquiry....mine tend to be of the odd variety, but much appreciated all the same!

And in additional curiosity, Candleshoe - what is your area of legal expertise, if you don't mind my asking?

[Candleshoe]

Odd enquiries are welcome too!

I am a property lawyer, specialising in residential conveyancing. It sounds dull but isn't, and is one of the few areas where clients go away happy and with nice new houses or lots of money. I get bottles of wine and thank-you cards, while my colleagues in the other departments get poison pen letters from prisoners or divorcees.

[hahler]

Wish you were here to handle my realestate lawsuit.
it has been dragging on for over a year and ive had to change lawyers once because my original attourney is having to be a witness.
this sucks\



dawn

[Twisted Minstrel]

Candleshoe:

I am a property lawyer, specialising in residential conveyancing. It sounds dull but isn't, and is one of the few areas where clients go away happy and with nice new houses or lots of money. I get bottles of wine and thank-you cards, while my colleagues in the other departments get poison pen letters from prisoners or divorcees.

Actually, that doesn't sound dull at all. I suffer from ignorance of all things legal-related. I suffer from having been brought up in the publishing industry, which is only half a league from Make Believe.

And I would send you a very nice bottle of wine and thank you card for your help - I hope the thought counts, anyway!

[Candleshoe]

You are very welcome to the info, TM. I'm certainly thinking about drinking now, so thank you for "giving" me the bottle!