A thread for Tara ...

[gorn]

Let me explain the genesis of this thread a bit before I delve into The Rules. There's a great quote from Tara out there that goes something like this ...

"I go on-line sometimes, but ... everyone's spelling is really bad, and it's ... depressing."

One of the reasons we're all here is because we can relate to or identify with some part of Willow and/or Tara, and this line from Tara is something I can relate to. I was an English teacher in years past, so perhaps I'm more troubled by the modern mangling of our language than others. Maybe it's generational - I can write a decent sentence with a clear subject, verb, and object, while my brother - 7 years younger - has the handwriting and syntax of a serial killer. I don't know what it is, but it's everywhere ... even here on the Kittenboard.

With this quote in mind, I thought I'd create the kind of thread where Tara wouldn't be quite so depressed, a thread where people write in complete sentences and spell most of their words correctly. It would be a place free of confusing acronyms, such as AFTK or LMAOROTF. I like to think Tara would enjoy the occasional emoticon, but she would use it like garnish; it would never be the main course. The content is not so important - that's why I decided to post this thread here instead of in Witches & Vixens. You can write about whatever you want, just don't babble - that belongs in a Willow thread.

Other threads, such as "The Person Below Me" thread have rules. So does this one --

The Rules --

1. Your post must be at least one complete paragraph long, with a minimum of 5 sentences.

2. Spell your words correctly (you're sitting at a computer - use your spell-checker!)

3. NO acronyms or internet-speak.

4. Your post must have A Point. It does not have to be a good Point, just please refrain from rambling.

5. Although Willow & Tara topics are encouraged, feel free to write about whatever you like. You can respond to the post above you (as in "The Chat Thread") or write about something totally new.

6. Keep emoticons to a minimum, no more than 1 per paragraph. In this case, less is more.


I do not really expect this thread to be popular; I'm more or less doing it on a whim. That quote from Tara has been in the back of my mind for a long time ... though to be perfectly honest, I read it here in a couple of fics before I knew Tara actually said it on the show.

Now, I know there are Kittens here who do not speak English as their first language. No problem - I speak a second language myself and understand the challenges firsthand. I encourage you to use this thread as a way of improving your English! Write a decent sentence, string your thoughts together, and watch your spelling.

So, there it is. I know there are some literate Kittens out there - post here and strut your stuff! Make Tara proud to browse the internet again!

[tazraven]

Alright, firstly I'd just like to say that this thread is amazing. I literally laughed out loud (notice, no use of the acronym) and then clicked the reply button immediately. While I do occasionally succumb to the allure of an emoticon or abbreviation, I try not to use them too liberally. It's just nice to see that other people who post on the internet care about the rules of grammar and spelling. It just goes to show that the english language isn't dead yet. Thank you.

~Sara

[dlline]

You see, gorn, this is why you rock!

When I first saw this thread, I had a small wash of concern that there were a great many kittens who might be offended, and the last thing we want is an offended kitten, right? But then again, I spend a lot of time being an offended kitten myself. My girlfriend is a seventh-grade English teacher and she is convinced (as am I) that the internet is going to be the end of the English language. And what a sad thing that would be. I see the word 'to' replaced with '2' and 'you' has become 'u' and now the entire internet looks like the liner notes for a Prince album. What is that all about?

The part that scares me the most is when I see papers, seventh-grade English essays, that use the same, aforementioned format of substituting one letter or number for an actual word. I understand spelling difficulties... some people struggle with that, but to be so unmotivated as to resort to the one letter or number, is to me, laziness in the highest order. And it drives me crazy! Especially when I see people writing it into works of fiction and then arguing that there is nothing wrong with it. There is everything wrong with it. If you are going to pour your heart and soul into a literary work, please love and care for it enough to make sure that it looks nice.

Again, gorn, I love this thread. I can't wait to see where it goes. My guess is that quite a few people will run away screaming, but that's their loss. English is a lovely language and I'd love to see the end of its abuse.

Thanks,
Diane

[EasierSaid]

I love the idea behind this thread, gorn, and am so glad you decided to create a place where Tara could hang out online without slipping into a deep, dark, grammar-related depression. I just think it's great that there's an place on the Kitten to practice what one of the character's preached, you know? Very cool and very fun! As you probably know, I'm partial to Tara's sentiments about "the Internets" and all that comes with it (bad spelling, crazy acronyms, etc.), so I'm doubly pleased to see this thread here. I'm sure this thread will be chock full of the same wacky stuff found in other threads, only with fewer dancing pink elephants! I look forward to seeing how this thread progresses. Bravo, good man, bravo.

[maudmac]

I am in favor of anything that has very few dancing pink elephants. Not that I don't like smilies, but I have always thought they should complement what one writes, rather than entirely replacing content, except in extreme situations where there is really that little to say. As for the state of the English language, it is a living, breathing language and as such, it must change. I love the way English effortlessly creates new words and phrases. I love the variety of dialects.

But these changes and variations must not get in the way of communication and some of the English on the internet does indeed interfere with communication. (Although it is important to consider the intended audience for such writing. If you can't understand it, it is possible that you aren't meant to and that it wasn't written for you. I have no problem with that.)

When the acronyms and such creep into more formal writing (for schoolwork, e.g.), that is really a shame. Never in a million years would I do such a thing and I have been known to "OMG WTF LOL!!!!111!1!11" plenty. There's a time and a place for writing that way and schoolwork is not it. We all have less formal styles of speaking and writing when we're among friends or family or other people with whom we're very comfortable, but we all also need the ability to turn that off when it's not appropriate. If some kids today just can't be bothered to do that when they're writing for school, that probably speaks to some other issues as well as language issues.

Nice thread, gorn. And...oh my God, what the fuck, gorn is a good man? How did I miss this? I did not get that memo!

[the hero factor]

This is a pretty neat idea for a thread. I cut my message board teeth over at Televison Without Pity lo these many years ago (okay, about five and a half years ago), and they have very strict rules about grammar and such. Correct capitalization and punctuation must be used, and 'text message lingo' isn't allowed.

When I finally started venturing out to other boards, I was surprised, and, like Tara, a bit disheartened at how lax the rules of grammar were in some places. If a post is very bad, it's almost like it hurts my eyes, and I'll usually just skip over it.

I do use abbreviations sometimes (especially IMO). And emoticons, mostly when I'm concerned that my tone won't carry over the internet and I want to be sure someone knows I'm joking.

[JustSkipIt]

Gorn,
I think you may be pleasantly surprised by the positive response to this thread. When I read it, my first thought was, "Diane is going to love this!" My next was, "I'm going to have to type my posts in Word first to check my spelling."

Nonetheless, I am going to actually write about something other than the brilliance of this thread.

My team leader called me just before 5:00 this afternoon. I had left work a little early because my wife was tired and asked me to come home and play with my son. My team leader called to tell me personally that he had just turned in his intent to resign. I was saddened but not surprised by his call. He explained that he wanted to tell me himself rather than letting me hear it through the rumor mill and that he had already met with the rest of the team.

I feel saddened because we have worked together for nearly eight years, side-by-side until a year ago. He was always a person that I could ask for a reality check on my code and that I respected enough to ask his professional opinion. In the last year we have had many management changes in our department and he was asked to take on the role of team lead. Unfortunately, he was not very good at being a team leader. He doesn't enjoy meetings or politics. I always felt sad because he had gone from being a very good programmer to an inadequate manager. This summer he was made to lay off 1/2 of our team and I know that deciding who would go really caused him a lot of angst. I truly hope that he will find a job that makes him more happy and allows him to do what he loves and excels at.

I'm also somewhat nervous about who will be named our next team leader. I predict that either our team will be combined with the other team in IT and we will get their team leader or one of my co-workers will be made team leader. The first option doesn't really stir any emotion in me. I think that team leader would be adequate but uninvolved. The second makes me more nervous. I suspect management will tap the person who sits next to me (let's call him "S"). S is a good man—really. I would love to set him up with an eligible straight woman if I knew any. He's honest and good with his hands and saves money and really wants to get married and have children. But I don't know how much I would like to be on a team that he leads. He and I have very differing philosophies of programming to the point that I don't respect his very much and he doesn't understand mine. I only hope that if he takes over as team leader, he can respect my ways enough to not interfere with my work.

[Willowtree252]

OK, I'm not sure this will be up to your standards but lets try it out. I know that this thread was created for Tara and we need to remember that she was loving, kind and cared about people's feelings and no matter how educated or uneducated people are she treated them all the same. The reason we are all kittens is because we follow Willow and Tara in a world where we can escape our harsh realities. I, for one take pride in knowing that we can come together with other countries and societies and forge lasting deep friendships through the Internet regardless of the words we choose to use. The most important thing to remember, I think, is that we are all true to ourselves.

[tazraven]

I’m having a severe issue with my schooling at the moment. As always happens, I have a mountain of homework already, and it’s only three weeks into the semester. Part of that is my procrastination techniques, which I know are a problem, but it’s one I’ve had since I started middle school and one that’s not likely to go away anytime soon. Yes, I’ve tried being a good little student and doing my homework on time, but it’s that classic reasoning that always gets me into trouble. The thought that says, “But you have another week before the test.”

Either way, that’s getting off topic. The other part of the problem is the classes I’m taking. I’m taking a genetics lab right now that’s needed for my major. But really, what 9th grader needs to know how to order a sequence of genes in UV sensitive bacteria? Does anyone need to know how besides genetic lab technicians and genetics teachers? I don’t think so, but what do I know? I’m just a college kid, taking classes that I don’t think will help me in the long run, but are a requirement.

My other issue: Evolution. They “theory” of evolution (in my opinion, it’s so solidified that it surpasses the word theory) is a great class. I don’t mind taking it. What I do mind is taking a class that I will never be able to teach the full brunt of in my high school biology classes. Georgia school systems don’t condone the teaching of evolution except to say that it is a theory. We’ve even had someone try to change the name of the theory, just so teachers wouldn’t be teaching “Evolution.” They’d be teaching “Changes in Time.” Does that sound ridiculous to anyone else but myself?

Anyhow, I realize that this post could have gone in the rants thread, but considering this is my new favorite one to post in, it’s going here. Thanks to anyone for listening.

~Sara

[maudmac]

It took me a minute to catch up. At first I thought, "tazraven is in the 9th grade?!?" Now I understand.

"Changes in Time"? I'd laugh if I didn't know that the Intelligent Design people are dead serious about that stuff. I'm no biologist, but is there any part of ID that is actually solid science? I understand they like to point to complexities in species and say there's no way this could have evolved this way, but there actually are good explanations for it, aren't there? How does a proponent of ID explain the flaws in our own bodies? Somewhere or another, I read a long list of aspects of human anatomy and physiology that are pretty weak from a design standpoint. I don't recall most of them, but I do remember the non-regenerating cilia in the ear (which some species do have) and the terrible design of our knees.

It hurts my brain to try to think the way they do. It never makes sense for more than about five seconds.

[diamondforever]

I've just started to go to university this past week, and so far, I have been overwhelmed by the freedom that comes with being away from home. As an introduction to this stage of life, the students have arranged for non-stop dance parties every night. I personally have tired of them after a few days, and actually prefer to sit in my room and read a good book as opposed to dancing until I drop. I'm waiting to meet some awesome lesbians, but as of far, I have not encountered many people except for drunken athletes in my building, as I was unfortunate enough to be placed in the residence that is mostly occupied by those on varsity teams.

Nevertheless, I am looking forward to the new experiences that university will provide, first and foremost, meeting people and studying hard with different coloured pens in hand.

[tazraven]

Hello again, everyone. I just thought I'd answer some of maudmac's questions.

At first I thought, "tazraven is in the 9th grade?!?"

I'm sorry, I just had to quote that. Though to be fair, if you saw me in real life, you'd probably mistake me for a 9th grader. I've been stopped in the halls everytime I go to a high school to do my observational teaching. Heck, I've been stopped at a middle school.

I'm no biologist, but is there any part of ID that is actually solid science?

Ok, so the way ID works, is they take the theory of evolution, always emphasizing that it's just a theory. Then, they say that since the entire world, composed of a veritable plethora of plants, animals, bacteria, and fungi, is so complex, there must be some higher being creating all of this. Creationists are very similar. They believe that a higher power (God) created everything, including the process of evolution and natural selection.

I understand they like to point to complexities in species and say there's no way this could have evolved this way, but there actually are good explanations for it, aren't there?

That's the beauty of science. There are always explanations if you dig long enough. Creationists and ID believers go on faith, that there is a higher power dictating the world and that evolution is just a cog in this huge clock he made. But the theory of evolution can be proved, and it has been, many times over. Evolution is a game of chance. No species is more evolved than another, not even humans. There's no pyramid, with bacteria on the bottom and humans on the top. Even complexities, such as the human immune system and a virus' process of parasitism are evolved, complex or no.

How does a proponent of ID explain the flaws in our own bodies?

That, again, is a good question. While I'm not trying to be judgemental, a proponent of ID tends to ignore huge facts, and then backtrack when it all makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. If you asked an ID believer to explain why there are flaws in our own bodies, they would probably say it is God's way.

Thanks for the questions. I always love a good discussion. And believe me, it hurts my head after a bit, too. Evolution just seems too supported a theory for people not to believe it. And it's happening right in front of our eyes all of the time.

Also, diamondforever, good luck in college. While I'm not going to say the work is good, becuase it's backbreakingly hard, I will say I've had some great times here. Though I'm exceedingly thankful this is my last year. College, in contrast to what everyone says about it, is hard if you do it right.

~Sara

[masterjendu]

I too, love a good discussion, and while I am not trying to turn this wonderful thread into a treatise on Evolution, the paleo geek in me couldn’t let this topic go by. Sorry if anyone nods off.

I totally understand your frustration, Tazraven. I have been a paleo geek since grade two and while doing my Masters in Paleontology, I ran across quite a few people who tried to convince me that Evolution was ’only a theory’. The main problem is the word theory. For most non-scientists, theory is synonymous with opinion or even guess (which, let’s face it, doesn’t make Chuckie Darwin look like all that and a finch pie). However, for all of the scientists in the word, theory is as close to truth or fact as you can get in science, as it is a culmination of the testing and verifying of hypotheses. As you said, one beauty of science is that there are always explanations if you dig deep enough. Another is that there is always room for improvement, as theories themselves can evolve. Unfortunately, where scientists just see changes to the Theory of Evolution as good science, proponents of ID see the fact that changes have occurred as another way to show that the ‘theory’ is flawed (thus adding another chink in the armor of the dark side). Okay, I am getting a bit dramatic, but really it comes down to the misunderstanding (or perhaps willful misrepresentation) of the word theory.

The problem of schooling is a huge one. Luckily, in Canada we don’t seem to have as big a problem with evolution in schools as you do in Georgia. I was actually shocked to hear that you are still limited in what or how you can teach in Biology. I was naïve enough to think that was all behind us. Why not teach both evolution and Intelligent Design, in Science class and Religion class respectively, and then let the students choose what they believe? And really there is no reason why a person can’t believe in God and evolution. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

While I am generally a non-judgmental person, who feels that people should be allowed to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn’t harm anyone, I can’t for the life of me get why Creationists and IDers feel so threatened by evolution in the classroom; so threatened by the fact that their child might learn two explanations for the magnificent variation of life, and then might make up their own mind.

Okay, I am ranting again, so I will end by saying this: if you have to diminish evolution by teaching it under the title of Biological Changes through Time and by presenting it as just a theory, please, please, please make sure your student understand the full meaning of the word theory.

Thanks for bringing this up, Sara!

[tazraven]

I always love meeting another Evolution lover. You brought up an interesting point that I forgot to touch on. The problem with saying that evolution is just a theory, is that the definition of a theory is so very different for a scientist than it is for everyone else.

for all of the scientists in the word, theory is as close to truth or fact as you can get in science, as it is a culmination of the testing and verifying of hypotheses.

Exactly. A theory is about as close as us scientists can get to actual fact. It's actually uncouth to say something is a fact in science. Heck, I even had a physics professor who still called the idea of gravity a theory, yet everyone believes that there is something called gravity keeping us tethered to the ground.

Another is that there is always room for improvement, as theories themselves can evolve. Unfortunately, where scientists just see changes to the Theory of Evolution as good science, proponents of ID see the fact that changes have occurred as another way to show that the ‘theory’ is flawed (thus adding another chink in the armor of the dark side).

Both fortunately and unfortunately, so true. One of the things I love about biology is that there is continual development of ideas, constant discoveries, and a never ending amount to learn. I think that there's a difference in mind sets for those who believe in evolution and those who don't. I see new facts and figures as a chance to add on to or tweak an idea, whereas a proponent of ID would see it as a mistake. Any information that contradicts the original idea, they use as a weapon, poking holes in an idea that's as close to fact as anything else.

I say if anyone doesn't believe in evolution, just look at the fastest evolving thing on the planet, changing basically before your very eyes. HIV, the human immunodeficiency virus, is currently the fastest evolving organism on the planet. It can change it's structure and genetic code within a year, creating three or four different strains in a person, where before there was only one, giving it the ability to hide from the body's immune system. If two people are infected with HIV on the same day, the next year they will find two totally different infections on their hands. Evolution is a constant process, a process that's possible to see in every day life. It's not just a method of speciation that takes place over thousands and millions of years. It's a process that is happening inside someone's body right now, right this very second. That, to me, is evolution.

I was actually shocked to hear that you are still limited in what or how you can teach in Biology. I was naïve enough to think that was all behind us.

While I would love to be able to teach what I think are the important points of biology, I'm limited by the state education standards. Very few topics are covered in depth, and the human body is now eradicated from the curriculum. It's frustrating beyond belief, knowing that I will be unable to teach my students what they should know, but at the same time, I couldn't imagine not teaching. It's all I want to do. And unfortunately, it's the price I pay for teaching in the South.

Why not teach both evolution and Intelligent Design, in Science class and Religion class respectively, and then let the students choose what they believe? And really there is no reason why a person can’t believe in God and evolution. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Because, that would make too much sense. Unfortunately, the religious people in the South only believe that they should be able to hoard in on science, and not the other way around. Hypocrisy is the law here in Georgia, loathe as I am to admit it.

if you have to diminish evolution by teaching it under the title of Biological Changes through Time and by presenting it as just a theory, please, please, please make sure your student understand the full meaning of the word theory.

Believe me, Jen, I'll try my best. Thanks for the discussion fun.

~Sara

[dlline]

Since this thread has slowly began to sink toward the bottom of the page, I thought I'd post this bit of gibberish here. It also seemed like a good idea since it's random, but not, and because we all know that I'm in love with the sound of my own voice. That said, here goes.

I was at a concert once in a small venue in Ann Arbor, Michigan. The artist was Tret Fure (whom I love) and she was talking about a day spent hiking in the woods with her then-girlfriend, songwriter Cris Williamson. Evidently, they were struck by lightning. Tret believed that since she was a songwriter, that she was required to write a song about the lightning strike because, well just because. Her song, AngelFire was a result. So, based on that, I feel compelled to write about my experience because I'm a writer and there are certain things that happen that require that you write about them.

I got a tattoo about ten days ago. My first one, and I can say with no hesitation, that it will not be my last. It was an experience that almost defies description, and I've found myself struggling for the words to describe what it actually felt like. My 16-year-old daughter said, "My friend said it was like getting bitten by about a thousand fire ants. Was it like that?" To which I answered, "Well, Emma, since I don't know what it feels like to get bitten by one fire ant, I really can't answer that." I've heard it described as being stung over and over by a really precise bee. That's not it either. What it really feels like is getting poked over and over again by a really rough looking guy wielding an electric needle full of ink. In other words, it's basically indescribable. Getting tattooed feels like getting tattooed.

The next question that almost always follows "What did it feel like?" is "Did it hurt?" Fuck yeah, it hurt. Remember? Rough guy, electric needle... that part. Yeah, it hurt, but it never hurt more than I could stand. I did flinch a couple of times, but it was a reflex action. When someone pokes you over and over again in the same spot, I dare you not to flinch. So now, if you're paying attention, you're probably scratching your head, wondering, "If it hurts that bad, why does she want to do it again?" To that I'll say because it hurt and I took it without whining, and when I was done I felt really pumped-up and totally brave, and now I have a wicked cool rainbow salamander on my right arm. And now, every time I look at it, I remember how it felt to be all pumped up and brave, and I can hardly wait to feel that way again.

I also learned a thing or two about myself.

1. Despite my advanced age (46), I still have room to learn a new trick or two.

2. I evidently have a touch of the "sick bitch" in me. Ask my girlfriend about this one. Or you could ask Bill, the guy with the brush cut that works at Liberty Tattoo in Atlanta. He could explain it to you also.

3. I must be the biggest Bengals fan on the planet, because the leaping tiger logo is my next planned tattoo (left bicep, if you were wondering).

4. Despite my advanced age, I'm not going to tell my Mom. Considering the evil look she gave me for walking around Vegas with my boxers peeking over the waistband of my cargos, I think the tattoo is a bit much. So, please, let's not tell Rita, okay? Thanks.

So, in conclusion, if you're seriously thinking about getting a tattoo, don't think about it for years and years like I did. Just go get the damn thing. Yes, it hurts, yes, it's yours forever, and yes, it's expensive, but it's so worth it, just for the way it makes you feel.

[woahnellie]

I really couldn't find a thread that fit this category. So here is my random, but not so random moment of this week. Two days ago I was told that I was going to have a new child in my class. My director informed me that she had two mommies, like I was going to be shocked or something. I was really excited to have this new experience. Most of the children in my classroom come from broken homes, or have the traditional family. It really is amazing the difference. Both parents attended the parent/teacher conference, usually in my experience it is just the mother. And they were so caring, and I'm thankful to have this experience. It makes me want to find a good girl, settle down, and have children. And for me to be saying this is like wow!

[gorn]

Hmm ... I'm not really sure you can say "like wow!" in a thread such as this, woahnellie, but I'm going to look the other way this time. Your spelling was good, and I know that's a hard thing for folks from Kentucky.

Just kidding! I love the bluegrass state of Kentucky and I love the people in it.

I haven't had the time to post on the Kittenboard recently, but I've been pleasantly surprised at the response to this thread! I honestly expected it to sink out of sight without a single reply. I shouldn't be so surprised, though, given the talent of the writers around here (that's what I get for spending more time in the Kitten than in Pens). I'm flattered at the kind words ... but I think I'm more flattered that folks out there feel like I do and chose to post here. It's nice sometimes to discover that you're not all alone out there in the wilderness, you know?

The above paragraph is five sentences exactly. I'm a little ashamed to barely be making the minimum set in my own Rules, but it's Thursday and I've already spent too much time tonight posting over in the It's Just Thursday, MKF! thread. It was maudmac who first created that thread, so you can imagine how pleased I was to see her posting now here in mine.

In writing this post, I also struggled somewhat with the decision to leave people's names in lower-case - woahnellie, maudmac. My own handle here, "gorn," is also lower-case ... why, I can no longer remember. Ever notice how many other folks here use lower-case names? I wonder if this is something common on the internet, or perhaps unique to this board? Either way, I wonder if it means anything. This also brings up another point I sometimes struggle with - there are a few of you out there whose "real" names I know. Is there a particular etiquette on which name to use, and when? Not that it particularly matters - I've come to know all of you by your screen personas, and even when I know your real names that's not the first name I think of when I think of "you."

[maudmac]

I am really glad this thread hasn't sunk like a stone, too. I was delighted when you made it, gorn, because it seemed like exactly the sort of thread I most wanted to participate in. (Oh, sorry, I mean ...the sort of thread in which I most wanted to participate. Yay, grammar!) I'm also pleased that that old Thursday daily thread has lived this long. I never expected that.

The name thing is interesting. I think it's an internet-wide thing and not really specific to this board. I do wonder why that is. Perhaps, when you give people the freedom to create an identity you find that a lot of them are more comfortable with lowercase names, but in real life people have to fight quite hard to get others to accept a lowercase name. I can think of only three people who've used lowercase in real life - ee cummings, kd lang, and bell hooks. I'm sure there are others, but it's clearly not common as it is on the internet. I have always used a lowercase username wherever I am on the internet. It just feels more right to me. Interesting issue. I'd like to hear what other people think about it and why they used lowercase for their names.

As for real names, I have no objection to anyone here using my real name (Holley), but I'm not usually comfortable with using other people's real names unless I know they're okay with it and I see other people doing it.

I see a lot of Southerners in this thread - unless you don't count Kentucky and Texas and Virginia. I know there's debate about which states constitute the South, but I will go with a more liberal definition that includes those states. I'd say Alabama's status as a Southern state is rock-solid and can never be debated. Perhaps this can help put to rest some stereotypes about us, at least the question of whether or not we have electricity here. (I am barefoot right now, though!)

[ellbogen]

Hi to all fellow Southerners and everybody else on this wonderful thread. I'd like to add Arkansas to the list of unlikely places where there are people who can spell and punctuate correctly. Although many people can't seem to recall exactly where Arkansas is on the map, and it could be interpreted alternately as Deep South (bordered by Mississippi and Louisiana), Southwest (also bordered by Texas and Oklahoma), or maybe Midwest (bordered to the north by Missouri), I have always considered myself a Southerner. As everywhere else, there are good people and bad people here, homophobic and gay-friendly people. My partner, who's from Seattle, even feels pretty comfortable here.

[tazraven]

Well, as long as we're trying to dispel some preconceived notions, I may as well throw in my two cents. Yes, I'm a Southerner from the sometimes great state of Georgia, land of the peach and home of the Dawgs. I can spell, I have more than three teeth, and I happen to live in a very nice two-story apartment, not in a double wide out in Podunk, Nowhere. I read books and know how to string words together to make a complete sentence. Heck, I even listen to classical music.

Despite my occasional tendency to use the words y'all and yup, or even the phrases fixin' to or (gasp) y'all all, I do understand the complexities of the english language and how to conjugate a verb. I know that at this point I'm beginning to sound high and mighty, but I really hate being judged by my place of origin. That's not to say that there aren't people that fit the stereotype where I live, I'm just glad to meet some Southerners like myself. Now, I'm fixin' to go to the store since I'v got a hankerin' for some grub. Have a good one, y'all.

~Sara

[JustSkipIt]

In writing this post, I also struggled somewhat with the decision to leave people's names in lower-case - woahnellie, maudmac. My own handle here, "gorn," is also lower-case ... why, I can no longer remember. Ever notice how many other folks here use lower-case names? I wonder if this is something common on the internet, or perhaps unique to this board? Either way, I wonder if it means anything.

I have been thinking about this particular question quite a bit lately. Yes, I've been thinking of the question of why people, myself in particular, type their name (or handle) in lower case. Interestingly, I type my handle in mixed case: JustSkipIt because it indicates that it is a concatenation of a phrase. In that way, my handle is typed much the way many computer programmers define variables. I use mixed case in declaring variables:

Dim strFirstName as string for example for a string variable that is first name. The mixed case makes it easier to read the variable name.

But I've noticed that I frequently type my actual name in lower case (deb or debra). Why is that? Here's what I've concluded. My entire name is on the left hand of the keyboard. I can type it very quickly without shifting. I know, it seems lazy to think that I'm typing my name in lower case because I'm basically lazy but I wonder if that's the reason many people use poor punctuation. Punctuation takes effort and time. Leaving it out, failing to capitalize, is quicker. [/quote]

[gorn]

Last night, I was posting in the It's Just Thursday, MKF! thread (the bestest of best threads on the Kittenboard) about the big storm blowing through. Mrs. Gorn was already asleep, but the two of us are usually pretty excited by big storms. Yes, we live in the countryside. No, there isn't much else to do. I've loved big storms since I was a kid, but Mrs. Gorn is actually terrified of lightning. Lightning blew up a tree next to her house when she was a child, and that event has pretty well scarred her for life. The storm itself - the wind, the rain, the rumble of thunder in the distance - doesn't bother her. It's just when the lightning starts to flash that she gets scared, particularly when it's striking close by.

Although they have a seperate word for "lightning" in Japanese, they rarely use it. The word for "thunder" - kaminari - is usually used to describe both.

I remember once back in Yokohama, I was stretched out on the bed taking a nap when a big storm was rolling in. Thunder, sky turned dark, lightning starting to flash. Mrs. Gorn came in the room, saw me laying there under the window with my shirt off. She quickly threw a towel over my stomach and drew the curtains. I asked what was wrong (I almost always have my shirt off around the house in the summer), and she said it was bad luck - very bad luck - to show your bellybutton during a storm. I did not know this at the time, but the Japanese god of thunder is a quite fearsome being who steals children's bellybuttons! What a horrible thing to tell children!

My father is from Denmark, and is quite into old folktales and traditions. When I was a child, he'd tell me when there was a storm that it was the sound of Thor fighting giants with his magic hammer; the louder the thunder, the more ass he was whuppin' (I doubt my father used those exact words with me as a child, but that's how I remember it now). He also used to tell me trolls lived under my bed, and instead of being afraid I should crawl under and try to find them; I was mightily disappointed when I could not find them ...

[gorn]

Forgive the double-post. I was thinking about this for a while, and all the news about power outages suddenly reminded me of it again.

Mrs. Gorn & I finally got up to "New Moon Rising" in our Buffy - Beginning to End adventure. It was actually over the Thanksgiving holiday when we had a couple of days to sit around and do nothing, but it has taken me until now to get around to posting about it. I'd seen this episode before a couple years ago in Japan, but I'd seen it somewhat out of context. Since summer, though, Mrs. Gorn & I have been watching every Buffy episode right from the very beginning (albeit at a slow pace), so I was seeing it somewhat for the first time just as the rest of you probably saw it originally. It's a much more powerful and moving episode than I remembered.

The "Extra-Flamey" candle scene at the end is one of those big Willow & Tara moments, and I daresay most of us have seen it over and over and over again, whether in fan music videos, a downloaded clip, or just rewinding it ourselves (can you still say "rewind" for a DVD? Just curious ...). Anyway, it never occurred to me until watching the WHOLE episode that there was a power outage in Sunnydale. I always imagined Tara was sitting alone in the dark because she was sad, and that Willow had that line - "No candles?" - because Tara's room was usually candlelit. But no, it was because there was a power outage! That's why she brought the Extra-Flamey candle, and that's why Tara was alone in the dark.

In an odd sort of way, this makes the scene even more romantic to me. Everything makes sense, it feels more "right." Not that it was odd before, but I guess ... I don't know, maybe the idea of Willow spontaneously bringing a candle seemed somewhat contrived.

What a wonderful scene.

[LestatDraconus]

Thank god this thread has been 'bumped' up. I didn't want to post, fearing reprisal.

(Slight Rant Warning; beware)

First off, I've always hated the fact that the internet is seemingly at the bursting point, full of retards who can't find the spell check for stories and can't find the time to type slower and more precise for conversations. I know it takes more time to type with spelling accuracy but it makes it so much easier for us, the people who have a sense of pride in our english skills, to read. I also find it absolutely impossible to read stories by people who leave their summaries out because they "suck at summaries, just read the storie, u know what I mean" and also have bad spelling in the story itself. It feels as if I'm going in circles but, I always turn away from a story with bad spelling in the Disclamer/First sentence of the story and absolutely shudder when someone doesn't put up a summary for their story, especially because; how do I know I even want to read the story? Do I go on faith alone? It saddens me to know that 78% of Fanfiction.net is owned by retards with top story ideas but no sense of literacy etiquette at all.

And now, a question. Why do some people write God in their fics (and even in normal posts) as G-d? In fics, it looks quite odd.

EDIT: Does my grammar anger you or is it passable? Reply so I can better it and myself.

Yet another EDIT: I have no idea why I like placing capitals at the beginning of the two segments of my screen name, it just feels right. And maybe because my handwriting is so atrocious, I feel that having excellent typing and english skills on the computer is a symbol of pride. (Irregardless of what my teacher in IT told me about my typing skills and how they differ massively to the the typing program, it is so much easier to type the way I feel comfortable with and screw anybody else who says different. )

[kisstheviolets]

Why do some people write God in their fics (and even in normal posts) as G-d? In fics, it looks quite odd.

While I can't speak specifically for the Kittens you reference, I do know that in Judaism you're not supposed to deface the written name of God, so those who are observant avoid writing it completely on paper or any other surface because it could be defiled or destroyed. As far as writing it online, I would imagine it could then then be printed and defaced in physical form (even accidentally). I was just trying to explain this to my mother the other day when she told me she added the documentary "Trembling Before G-d" to her Netflix queue. Off topic, but it's a great film you should definitely take the time to watch. Anyway, I'm not an expert on the subject so perhaps one of the Kittens who practices this could elaborate.

On a completely different topic, I found myself thinking about how strange it is to relocate to a new city as an adult. I've never moved somewhere new for non-school purposes until this most recent relocation to Portland, Oregon. I'm trying to figure out how to establish myself in a new town, but I haven to admit it's more than a bit difficult when you don't have school as the default activity and medium for making friends. Who knew I'd ever miss college and law school so much? And even better than that was being a kid and able to knock on the front door of any house with kids in the neighborhood and ask if they wanted to come out and play. I suppose I could try that on the doors of all the hot ladies in PDX, but you might see me on the evening news for it!

[Knock yourself out]

Firstly, I agree with LestatDraconus about people’s laziness but I can’t help pointing out that English should have a capital E.

Secondly, I am inclined to think that lack of care in writing on the Internet is sometimes little more than plain bad manners. On another forum I’m on, we were moaning about poor grammar and someone said that she didn’t bother to take care when she was writing on forums because it wasn’t that important whereas when she was dealing with clients she did make an effort. My reaction to that unattractive lack of respect is to make sure I never read anything by her again. I’m such a fusspot when I’m writing that it takes me ages to write even the simplest e-mail or post. It’s guaranteed if I don’t take care there’ll be an embarrassing error (embarrassing to me anyway).

Finally, I find it ironic that during this WGA strike there are so many Internet posts that have a sentence somewhere that says "the writer’s strike"…

[Pinocchio1940]

Is it possible that some people consider the internet "virtual" so to speak, so they don't take as much care to make sure they are using proper spelling and grammar?

[gorn]

Don't take this personal - I believe you make a valid point - but it's going to take more than one sentence to make it in this thread (please see the first post). Most threads on the Kittenboard are kind of rapid fire, you know? A quick thought, a single sentence, sometimes just a single word are all acceptable, and that's fine. I do it myself ... though when the opportunity presents itself - and I can spare the time - I like to elaborate a bit more. My idea behind this thread was to make it a little bit more than your typical Internet post, something a little slower-paced and more thought out. Old-fashioned, if you will.

Most of us are more computer-savvy than we realistically need to be; in this thread, pretend you're not. Tara was not at all computer-savvy, and this is a thread for her. Take your time, make a cup of tea ... and watch your spelling (that always used to depress her).

[Feena]

Finally - a thread for my inner grammar-pedant (mentally inserts smiling emoticon)

I do get twitchy sometimes when I (try to) read posts on other Forums that are written in "txt-spk". Maybe it's my age (38) but I just don't understand them. Surely it takes them longer to work it out than just to write in a normal way? I don't have too much of a problem over a few spelling mistakes, after all you Yanks all spell colour and programme incorrectly (feels she probably should add a here) but some things I do think are pure laziness, e.g. long posts that are completely lowercase with no punctuation at all.

I know I'm my own worse enemy about it though. Posts take me twice as long because sometimes I spell-check certain words, and I almost always 'Preview' first. If I post and see a mistake I have to correct it. And I'm bad for the Planet too. I print out something at work, see a mistake and so have to correct and re-print it.

Thank you for this thread, I think Tara would love it here.

[maudmac]

Yes, yes, Tara would indeed appreciate this thread.

I hate that I stick out like a sore thumb on most of the rest of the internet because I type mostly correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I am not perfect, but I do make an effort.

The internet is weird. It's fascinating, but it's weird. Here we all are, and we have a sense that we are a community, but hardly any of us know one another in real life. And among the people I know in real life, I find that the internet is our primary mode of communication. You want to stay in touch with someone you meet, you ask for their email address. If you get a phone number, you probably send text messages. For fucks sake, I know people who will spend three or four times longer sending a text than it would take to speak whatever they have to say. Do they call? No. They text.

As a person who values conversation extremely highly, this bothers me. I want to talk with people. If we are not the sort who can have real conversations, I'd rather not even bother with texts and emails and whatnot, unless they are merely a supplement to the real conversation. I want depth and intimacy. Is that so much to ask?