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The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thread

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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby skittles » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:44 am

from db:
I hope this post is ok for this thread - I didn't read the whole thing - just the part about UCC (thus my comment)


db, that is what this thread is about. It is about positive & not-so-positive stuff that link "religion & homosexuality."

I'm sorry about the minister who married you & your partner. I, too, get "mad" at "the church" but I also try to remember that the church is made up of people... and that's a hard thing to do. I was "hurt" by a member of the clergy who attacked me using the hierarchy of the church... I have strong suspisions about the true reasons why she did so. That is past history... but it still hurts. I am no longer a member of that denomination, but have joined Gatito's church with great joy.

There are many reasons why people are "attacked" by "the church" and not all of the reasons are the ones stated publically... there are many hidden agendas & reasons for the attacks. In between the tears & pain, we should try to look for the joy... but this can take much time.

I guess one thing that helps me through the pain(s) is that although we are "Christian," we are not perfect at all... but we are forgiven for our weaknesses & our failings to ourselves & others. Through it all, we also need to forgive ourselves... sometimes that is the hardest part of all.

Keep Strong. Keep Strong. Keep Strong.

Peace.
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby Candleshoe » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:44 am

Hey skittles, nice to see you here again!

we are not perfect at all... but we are forgiven for our weaknesses & our failings to ourselves & others. Through it all, we also need to forgive ourselves... sometimes that is the hardest part of all.

Absolutely! I reckon this is one of the things that "the church" often forgets: we Christians do get things wrong, we do and say some unthinking and hurtful things, and we are not always right. That includes the people in dog-collars!

It can be so easy to tar every Christian with the same negative brush (and I do it all the time!) but I absolutely agree that treating everyone (inside the church and out) as an individual is the way forward. We are all unique and we all have a story to tell, which has contributed to who and where we are now. Sometimes grouping people together in our heads isn't a helpful image... just as we wouldn't want to be thought of as one of "the [insert minority group here], we should perhaps be wary of thinking of others as one of "the church".

It's a sad fact that I am much more readily accepted as a lesbian than as a Christian these days...coming out as a church-goer is much more traumatic! Maybe that's an English thing, religion has become the un-discussable topic here.

db, I'm sorry that you have been treated badly, but I do hope that you find some wiser and kinder folk at some point...
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby db » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:38 pm

skittles
I'm sorry about the minister who married you & your partner. I


I appreciate that. Thank you. I am sure she does too.

She is raising sea horses these days. Have you ever seen sea horses? They are, like, magic... ooh and salt water tanks all with the anemones and gorgeousness. It is beautiful. So that's good.

Candleshoe:

db, I'm sorry that you have been treated badly, but I do hope that you find some wiser and kinder folk at some point...


Oh. No. I didn't mean to imply that I was treated badly. I wasn't. The badness I feel is not due to my mistreatment 'cause I real don't feel that there was any. I was married by a wonderfully spiritual woman who really knew how to make the day just spectacularly beautiful. So no - I was treated fabulously. I just feel a kind of gross badness about UCC because I feel they were disingenuous - what with the 'yay gay' advertisement and then they went and punished a great person for a loving stance that she took regarding gay marriage and, and she didn't deserve it. She deserved praise and credit and commendation!

It seems to me, that if I had any place commenting on Christianity (which I don't) that someone who acted in this manner should be *rewarded* for being such a great Christian - and instead they betrayed her terribly... but you should know that I never actually belonged to her congregation (I am not sure if that is the right word) or went to UCC myself.

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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby Boadecia » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:46 am

This is my first post here and I just thought I would share what is probably an all-too-common experience for us kittens. I was reading the sydney morning herald this morning and was taken aback by comments made by a bishop in Africa who was on a tirade about homosexuality and its impact upon doctrine. Anyway, he said "homosexuals are worse than dogs". Now for on thing, HEY!! second of all apart from the obvious fact that dogs are cute, loyal and loveable :p in all seriosuness I was hurt. Its weird, i've been called a dyke and god knows how many other horrible things, but i dont know why this hit hard today?

Anyway, i was just astonished at the fact that not only was the conservative right threatening to split their precious church over homosexuality! But that unfortunately Australian Bishops leant they're support to these calls! And as for the African block of Bishops, well I believe there are larger problems than the corrupting influence of "ooohh scary homosexuals!" its called AIDS dudes!
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby Gatito Grande » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:02 am

Ack: I could go on and on about the issues you're discussing, Boadecia.

The "worse than dogs" *sshole is the infamous Archbishop of Nigeria, Peter J. Akinola. He is the (at least titular) leader of all homophobes in the Anglican Communion right now (probably because Nigeria has the largest Anglican Church in the Communion, outside of "Mother Church", the CofE).

Re Australia--- not all Anglican bishops in Oz are awful . . . but you, Boadecia, are located in the home of the worst: Archbishop of Sydney Peter Jensen (I think it's Peter? He has a brother, a priest, who's a 'phobic b*stard, too).

For Anglicans around the world, you're gonna find that 1) some in your countries will want to side w/ Akinola, 2) some w/ "whatever the majority (and the Archbishop of Canterbury, the first-among-equals in the Communion) wants", and 3) some w/ the Episcopal Church (USA) and other (significantly) pro-gay churches, like the Anglican Church of Canada.

GG Naturally, I'd prefer all Anglicans around the world to lobby their churches (especially bishops) to side the third way, w/ ECUSA! :pride Out

These decisions (who you stand with) will become especially relevant in the next couple of years, as the 2008 "Lambeth Conference" approaches. Will ECUSA bishops (and possibly Canadians, too) be excluded? And how will bishops around the world (and their church-members) respond if they are?
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby russ » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:58 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, GG, but I believe that if an entire national church, such as ECUSA or ACC, is "disinvited" from Lambeth, that constitutes expulsion from the Anglican Communion. While some (i.e. Akinola & co.) will lobby for this, chances are a typically Anglican "middle way" will be sought. This may involve omitting Bps. Robinson & Ingham, as well as other prominent supporters of equality, while making a point of including the bishops of the religious right, of whom there is no shortage. Hopefully the leadership of our national churches will have the gumption to stand up and say, "All of our bishops, or none."

Either way, 2008 will be the breaking point for the Anglican Communion. We'll continue to pray that GG's option 3 is chosen by most.

In Canada we'll be electing a new primate at General Synod in 07. The choice made there will be a good indication of which way the national church is going, & the right with its wealth and influence will be lobbying hard.

Meanwhile, I remain in awe of the most faithful Christians I know; the GLBT clergy & laity who carry on in the face of hatred and persecution. I ask myself how long I'd stay in the Church if the sort of diatribe that Boadecia read were directed against, say: men, straight people, blue-eyed people, etc.

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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby Gatito Grande » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:28 pm

I once again ask Kittens to extend their thoughts, wishes, and prayers to any Benevolent Higher Power of their choice, to my beloved Episcopal Church, as we conduct our once-every-three-years General Convention (this week, in Columbus, Ohio).

We're under so much pressure, from without as well as within, to pitch our LGBT members over-the-side, w/ "moratoriums" on our full-participation in the church, and "repentence" for the gay-poz things we've already done (chiefly, elect and consecrate openly-gay +Gene Robinson a bishop three years ago :party).

All the demands for a "pause" or "compromise" or "apology" etc.---complete w/ ultimatums if we don't---are ALL about saying "if the Anglican Communion (the worldwide organization, of which the Episcopal Church is a member) breaks up, it will be the gays' fault!" :wtf

GG LGBTs are between a rock and a hard place, as always :spin Out

So please keep us in your thoughts: may we be true to the God who made some of us gay! :pride
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby Candleshoe » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:08 am

I'm praying, GG....this is such an important time for us LGBT anglicans across the world, and I so hope that the biblical tenets of love and acceptance win through. :pray
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby MemsMapper » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:12 pm

Hey GG, I was just talking to my Mom, and she was telling me that the Episcopal Church in the US has just elected a woman as Primate, Katharine Jefferts Schori, the Bishop of Nevada. First woman primate in the world, way to go! There are some stories on the home page of ECUSA.

http://www.ecusa.anglican.org/

I wonder how the world community will react (specifically, Nigeria).

Mom was also saying that in Canada, the Primate is elected by the layity and clergy and approved by the Bishops, but in the US, the house of Bishops elects the Primate and it is approved by the layity and clergy. A very strong approval then. Nice to see some progressiveness, especially in light of your previous comments about backing off certain 'issues'.

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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby Gatito Grande » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:38 pm

Yep, this is absolutely an Alleluia Moment, Mems: that's for sure! * :party :pinky :bounce :applause

GG ...though we still needs those prayers and kind thoughts, re policy towards LGBTs :pride (specifically, whether any more LGBTs can be elected/consecrated as a bishop, and whether/how same-sex couples may be blessed). There's a reported deadlock over what to do about this (us!). Pray, pray, pray! :pray Out

* +KJS will be the first woman "Primate" (chief bishop of a national church) ANYWHERE in the Anglican Communion. :grin
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby Krazy Dreamer » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:28 am

This is something I found this morning. Just one guy's opinion, but he gives it a lot of thought, and presents it in a very rational and totally non-threatening way. It's definitely something to check out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dDQxs3Asms
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby maudmac » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:48 pm

Ah, yeah, he does make some good points. Thanks, Krazy Dreamer. I wish more people saw it the way he does, at least that the United States is not a theocracy.
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby MemsMapper » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:55 pm

Found this story about the newly elected female primate of the Episcopal Church. Some dioceses want to leave the church because of her. Apparently not because she's a woman (although some dioceses aren't too keen on that), but because she's supportive of liberal views within the church.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... t/asection

I didn't realize that only Canada, USA, and New Zealand have female bishops in the Anglican Church. I would have thought there'd be more by the 21st century.

Found the story on AlterNet, a great spot for a more liberal view of the world (or of the States at least). For a Canadian left view, check out rabble.

http://www.alternet.org/

http://www.rabble.ca/

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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby MemsMapper » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:08 pm

Update on the new Episcopalian Primate. My Mom just forwarded this to me, a letter from Katharine Jefferts Schori (the Primate of the American Episcopal Church mentioned above) to one of the bishops who is talking about leaving the Church due to all the changes (women in charge, gays elected bishop). About time someone told these guys what they're really doing. The 30 years she mentions is the time since women were first ordained.

Mems

***

Episcopal News Service
November 20, 2006

San Joaquin bishop sent letter from Presiding Bishop

[ENS] Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori -- concerned by current affairs in the Fresno-based Diocese of San Joaquin, California -- has written to its bishop, the Rt. Rev. John-David Schofield. The diocese, which is scheduled to meet in convention December 1-2, includes an estimated 10,000 Episcopalians in some 48 congregations. The text of Jefferts Schori's November 20 letter follows.

November 20, 2006

The Rt. Rev. John-David Schofield
Diocese of San Joaquin
4159 E. Dakota Avenue
Fresno, California 93726

My dear brother:

I have seen reports of your letter to parishes in the Diocese of San Joaquin, which apparently urges delegates to your upcoming Diocesan Convention to take action to leave the Episcopal Church. I would ask you to confirm the accuracy of those reports. If true, you must be aware that such action would likely be seen as a violation of your ordination vows to "uphold the doctrine, discipline, and worship of Christ as this Church has received them." I must strongly urge you to consider the consequences of such action, not only for yourself but especially for all of the Episcopalians under your pastoral charge and care.

I certainly understand that you personally disagree with decisions by General Conventions over the past 30 and more years. You have, however, taken vows three times over that period to uphold the "doctrine, discipline, and worship of the Episcopal Church." If you now feel that you can no longer do so, the more honorable course would be to renounce your orders in this Church and seek a home elsewhere. Your public assertion that your duty is to violate those vows puts many, many people at hazard of profound spiritual violence. I urge you, as a pastor, to consider that hazard with the utmost gravity.

As you contemplate this action I would also remind you of the trust which you and I both hold for those who have come before and those who will come after us. None of us has received the property held by the Church today to use as we will. We have received it as stewards, for those who enjoy it today and those who will be blessed by the ministry its use will permit in the future. Our forebears did not build churches or give memorials with the intent that they be removed from the Episcopal Church. Nor did our forebears give liberally to fund endowments with the intent that they be consumed by litigation.

The Church will endure whatever decision you make in San Joaquin. The people who are its members, however, will suffer in the midst of this conflict, and probably suffer unnecessarily. Jesus calls us to take up our crosses daily, but not in the service of division and antagonism. He calls us to take up our crosses in his service of reconciling the world to God. Would that you might lead the people of San Joaquin toward decisions that build up the Body, that bring abundant life to those within and beyond our Church, that restore us to oneness.

I stand ready for conversation and reconciliation. May God bless your deliberation.

I remain

Your servant in Christ,

+Katharine

The Most Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori
Presiding Bishop and Primate
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby BBOvenGuy » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:37 pm

The Rt. Rev. Gene Robinson, Bishop of New Hampshire - yes, the gay bishop - was the guest preacher at my church this past Sunday. His Sermon topic was the parable of the Good Samaritan, in which he made some points that I personally hadn't thought of before.

You can check it out for yourself (it's about 25 minutes long) at Google Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3761&hl=en
Now there's something you don't see every day... unless you're us...

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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby Ben Varkentine » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:29 pm

A man named Albert Snyder sued the mad anti-gay preacher Fred Phelps and his "church" when they protested Snyder's son's funeral.

Yesterday Phelps and his daughters were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

They've been ordered to pay over 10 million dollars.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/02/us/02 ... ei=5087%0A

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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thr

Postby MemsMapper » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:35 pm

A couple of stories on Bishop Desmond Tutu and an interview he gave to the BBC.

Mems

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7100295.stm

BBC NEWS
Tutu chides Church for gay stance
South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu has criticised the Anglican Church and its leadership for its attitudes towards homosexuality.

In an interview with BBC Radio 4, he said the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, had failed to demonstrate that God is "welcoming".

He also repeated accusations that the Church was "obsessed" with the issue of gay priests.

He said it should rather be focusing on global problems such as Aids.

"Our world is facing problems - poverty, HIV and Aids - a devastating pandemic, and conflict," said Archbishop Tutu, 76.

"God must be weeping looking at some of the atrocities that we commit against one another.

"In the face of all of that, our Church, especially the Anglican Church, at this time is almost obsessed with questions of human sexuality."

Criticising Dr Williams, he said: "Why doesn't he demonstrate a particular attribute of God's which is that God is a welcoming God."

'Extraordinarily homophobic'

Archbishop Tutu referred to the debate about whether Gene Robinson, who is openly gay, could serve as the bishop of New Hampshire.

He said the Anglican Church had seemed "extraordinarily homophobic" in its handling of the issue, and that he had felt "saddened" and "ashamed" of his church at the time.

Asked if he still felt ashamed, he said: "If we are going to not welcome or invite people because of sexual orientation, yes.

"If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God."

Dr Williams has been working to limit divisions between liberal and traditionalist Anglicans that came to the fore following Bishop Robinson's consecration in 2003.

Following his plea for compromise, leaders of the Episcopal Church in the US agreed to halt the consecration of gay priests as bishops, to prevent a split in the Anglican Communion.

In the interview, Archbishop Tutu also rebuked religious conservatives who said homosexuality was a choice.

"It is a perversion if you say to me that a person chooses to be homosexual.

"You must be crazy to choose a way of life that exposes you to a kind of hatred.

"It's like saying you choose to be black in a race-infected society."

From Calvary To Lambeth will be aired on BBC Radio 4 on Tuesday, 27 November at 2000 GMT.

http://www.mask.org.za/article.php?cat=religion&id=1759

Tutu hits out at church for attitude to gays
by Jennifer Gold, Christian Today

Tutu hits out at church for attitude to gays

In an interview with BBC Radio 4, Archbishop Emeritus, Desmond Tutu, accused the Church of being “obsessed” with the issue of gay priests, while ignoring pressing global needs such as poverty and HIV. "Our world is facing problems - poverty, HIV and Aids - a devastating pandemic, and conflict," said Archbishop Tutu, 76.

"God must be weeping looking at some of the atrocities that we commit against one another. In the face of all of that, our Church, especially the Anglican Church, at this time is almost obsessed with questions of human sexuality." Archbishop Tutu went on to criticise the spiritual leader of the 70-million strong worldwide Anglican Communion, the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams, of overlooking God’s “welcoming” nature. "Why doesn’t he demonstrate a particular attribute of God’s which is that God is a welcoming God,” he told the BBC.

The Anglican Communion has been in turmoil over homosexuality since the US Episcopal Church elected the openly gay Gene Robinson to serve as the Bishop of New Hampshire in 2003. According to the BBC, Archbishop Tutu said he had felt “saddened” and “ashamed” of his Church at the time of Bishop Robinson’s consecration and that the Anglican Communion had responded in an “extraordinarily homophobic” manner. When asked during the interview if he still felt ashamed, he replied: “If we are going to not welcome or invite people because of sexual orientation, yes. "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn’t worship that God."

In North America particularly, conservative Anglicans are taking measures to separate themselves from more liberal churches and find new approaches that would allow them to live according to Scripture. Last month, an orthodox group in Ottawa, Canada, proposed the formation of a new branch of the Anglican Church of Canada that is more “biblically faithful” than the current Church after the Ottawa and Montreal Dioceses approved resolutions in October urging their respective bishops to allow clergy to bless same-sex unions.

The outspoken Nigerian Archbishop Peter Akinola and prominent traditionalist, Gregory Venables in Argentina, have said they will continue to offer a home for parishes and dioceses who want to leave the liberal-leaning Episcopal Church. An October 30 communiqué signed by nine Primates of the Global South called for a postponement of the Lambeth Conference and stated, “We reject the religion of accommodation and cultural conformity that offers neither transforming power nor eternal hope.”
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thread

Postby Adsum » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:17 am

A Christian group shows up to a Chicago Gay Pride parade holding apologetic signs including "I'm sorry for how the church treated you".
http://imgur.com/bVD9p

More on the story:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archiv ... g-at-pride

http://naytinalbert.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... -i-am.html
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thread

Postby Candleshoe » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:47 pm

Adsum wrote:A Christian group shows up to a Chicago Gay Pride parade holding apologetic signs including "I'm sorry for how the church treated you".
http://imgur.com/bVD9p

More on the story:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archiv ... g-at-pride

http://naytinalbert.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... -i-am.html


The Marin Foundation were behind that demonstration of acceptance, and their blog, facebook page and various books are worth checking out.
Last edited by Candleshoe on Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thread

Postby Adsum » Wed May 02, 2012 10:25 pm

North Carolina Pastor Sean Harris: Parents Should 'Punch' Their Gay-Acting Children. At the bottom of the article there are also several other quotes. For example, “Gay – straight alliances are designed to recruit kids” and “'Virtually Impossible' To Contract AIDS Through Heterosexual Sex”; Hmm, maybe he should thoroughly test that theory. I just need to go and double check something, I was under the illusion we are in the 21st Century.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/0 ... 68618.html

You can skip the negative and watch this:
“Homecoming”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a54UBWFXsF4
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thread

Postby Finey_McFine » Thu May 03, 2012 6:13 pm

Pastor Sean Harris...OMFG!! Michelangelo Signorile had him on his radio show this week on OutQ and this guy is a real piece of work. What is scarier is that he has a bunch of followers that were cheering him on. He basically told Michelangelo that he was 'joking' and that he didn't advocate hitting your kids. Such bullshit. This guy meant EVERYTHING he said!

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/pa ... 5/02/38935
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thread

Postby BeMyDeputy » Sat May 05, 2012 2:09 pm

This past week the United Methodist Church voted against changing language in its book of laws that calls homosexuality "incompatible with Christian teaching." During the debate, one speaker compared homosexuality to bestiality--the translator actually stopped and apologized before translating that part.

A lesbian acquaintance of mine from high school is a pastor in the UMC. She's devastated. I remember in high school, all she wanted to do was be a pastor. I remember so many people who called themselves Christians who were so high and mighty about it, but she was one of the warm, friendly, and generous ones. The kind that didn't look down on you for believing something different. She was really focused on the whole "love everyone" thing, without using "love" as an excuse to lecture you about hell.

It sounds like she's thinking of leaving the UMC, even though it's the church she grew up in. I have nothing analogous in my life, but to be slapped like that by something you've given your life to . . . it must be so disorienting.
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Re: The Scarier "Religion & Homosexuality" Thread

Postby Adsum » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:22 am

Missouri Pastor’s Fiery Speech Against Equal Rights for Homosexuals Has Stunning Twist Ending

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u4Z3n2Fnyc
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