Lesbian Cliche FAQ - Final (tentative)

[xita]

it leaves a big hole doesn't it? Seeing season 7 sides, it's like the show's soul is missing. What happened to Tara was crule and unecessary, a show that treats beloved characters like that is not worth my time.

[friskylez]

Xita, I couldnt agree with you more, its not about being grateful..Ive said many times, things have gotten better since i came out in 1980, but not to the extent that they should have..

[Kendahl897]

I wish Herc had posted the ''Spike dies'' spoiler before the San Diego Con..Then a kitten could have stood up during the questionaire and asked Joss if '' Spike was going to die this upcoming season as spoiler sources are saying, or is he, like Tara, a big part of the heart of the show? Or are the Willow/ Tara fans the only ones you blatantly lie to?'''

[Ben Varkentine]

Guys...speaking as someone who, I'm sorry, hasn't decided yet if he's going to watch season seven but would like to remain as unspoiled as I can just in case...can we please watch our spoilers?

[Wiccagrrl313]

Humm... I know some threads obviously tend to have spoilers in them (I want Tara back and the Angry Rant threads, for example). Others are being kept pretty much spoiler free. Not sure where in the spectrum this thread falls...

[famer]

As a short aside to UK TV viewers e.g. Sheridan...

Wouldn't Helen and Nikki from [b:d9c9cd2c49] Bad Girls [/b:d9c9cd2c49] qualify as a kinda long-term lesbian couple? True, they were kept apart by a prison but a grand romance was had by all.

And, unlike BTVS, they had a happy ending. Think that might have to do with the fact that socially conscious women write for that show? [Bad Girls shows in Canada on Digital Cable].

[Sheridan]

[quote:372e81dfc4][b:372e81dfc4][i:372e81dfc4]Quote:[/i:372e81dfc4][/b:372e81dfc4]

---

Wouldn't Helen and Nikki from Bad Girls qualify as a kinda long-term lesbian couple?

---

[/quote:372e81dfc4]

Well [b:372e81dfc4] Farmer[/b:372e81dfc4] since getting me to watch anything on ITV would require nailing me to a chair and gluing my eyelids open I couldn't really say...

[BoredNow99]

I can, as I have no shame in admitting to watching ITV. Well, not much anyway

Nikki and Helen would qualify as having a long-term lesbian relationship, but as soon as they get together - on the right side of the prison bars - they leave the show.

So, yeah, they skip off hand in hand to live happily ever after, but the viewer doesn't get to see it.

[tommo]

Re: the whole Nikki and Helen thing...well happy lesbians. I mean come on, who wants to see that?

Seems to me that most tv makers think that if lesbians aren't angsting or crying or separated or snogging in the prison library, then they just ain't interesting. Bah.

[Tulipp]

Ruth, I'm just doing the math....if you take out the word "prison," how much W/T fanfic did you just describe?

Yeah, happy lesbians. Who needs 'em?

[Ben Varkentine]

I know, WG, and I avoid those threads for that reason. Just wanted to give a friendly reminder.

[urnofosiris]

Actually BtVS spoilers are no longer sacred and neither is the show. We won't have lengthy discussions of general Buffy spoilers if they do not relate to WT and discussion of WT spoilers can happen in whatever thread these are relevant. If someone mentions something spoilery anywhere, they can, though I have not seen any spoilers mentioned outside of threads in which they can be relevant (like this one). If that were the case we can always post a reminder then if necessary.

[tommo]

[quote:ddb0184993][b:ddb0184993][i:ddb0184993]Quote:[/i:ddb0184993][/b:ddb0184993]

---

[b:ddb0184993] Ruth, I'm just doing the math....if you take out the word "prison," how much W/T fanfic did you just describe?[/b:ddb0184993]

---

[/quote:ddb0184993]

Ah yes, but with W/T fanfic, chances are our two girls end up happy, together and [b:ddb0184993] alive[/b:ddb0184993] at the end. I'm afraid the same can't be said for most televisual representations of lesbians. But I live in hope.

Speaking of, our home grown TV lesbian, Zoe Tate, has started smoking since she got put into the "crazy hospital". I'm sure it's only a matter of time before her evil self emerges. Sigh. I can't watch that shit anymore. Someone tell me why I continue to do so?

[Sheridan]

[quote:d5356b3304][b:d5356b3304][i:d5356b3304]Quote:[/i:d5356b3304][/b:d5356b3304]

---

I can't watch that shit anymore. Someone tell me why I continue to do so?

---

[/quote:d5356b3304]

Because Ruth you are both a hopeless optimist and romantic.

[tommo]

Hopeless eh? Yeah, that would pretty much sum up my existence. Heh.

[Dumbsaint]

Come now, Ruth, there's always hope... that Amber's next big role will feature her in leather... heavily.

[Ben Varkentine]

"Actually BtVS spoilers are no longer sacred and neither is the show. We won't have lengthy discussions of general Buffy spoilers if they do not relate to WT and discussion of WT spoilers can happen in whatever thread these are relevant. If someone mentions something spoilery anywhere, they can, though I have not seen any spoilers mentioned outside of threads in which they can be relevant (like this one)."

My problem then is knowing which threads those are--because technically they would only seem relevant to this one, for example, if the spoilers involved another instance of the LC, and not things like so-and-so having X happen to them.
Is there any way or anything I can look for a warning for that sort of thing? Because I'd like to keep hanging out here and tracking the backlash, etc, but I really don't want to be spoiled at this point.

[urnofosiris]

The backlash will most likely continue to include future spoilers when those are relevant, for example a spoiler predicting a happy ending for X/A or B/S would be relevant as that would contradict a popular excuse for destroying WT which is that no couple on BtVS lives happily ever after. It would be very difficult to exclude spoilers from the many topics that deal with what Joss Whedon/ME did to WT, to put up a spoiler warning in every post would interrupt the flow of conversation too much, so if you would like to continue to read those threads then I think avoiding spoilers will be difficult unfortunately.

However, we are still deciding how to channel future spoilery and BtVS discussion (both of which will be focussed and in regard to WT of course). I will bet that any and all future spoilers and episodes will [b:bf5f68bc7c] not[/b:bf5f68bc7c] give WT fans reason to cheer (that is just my shiny optimistic nature and the fact that I have learned my lesson when it comes to BtVS). Personally I would like to keep those in the threads in which we talk about ME's treatment of WT, their fans and the gay community, and not have negative spoilers in threads that are about happier WT moments etc. As it is, we have not decided yet.

If you or anyone else has any questions about this, please email us, further talk about the proper place and way to deal with spoilers is off topic for this thread.

[tommo]

I like your shiny optimistic nature, Garfield. It compliments my own so well.

[feena191]

I found this site, [i:51ec5c5b0d] DykesVision Serial Sapphics on Screen[/i:51ec5c5b0d] www.puk.de/ivanova/links_eng.html#lestv which has links to other sites mainly about BtVS, B5 & ER. And were the [b:51ec5c5b0d] Website of the Month[/b:51ec5c5b0d] [i:51ec5c5b0d] the name says it all: It's the biggest Willow/Tara-Board. Read the fanfic, the goodness, and lately, the outrage. Many impressive argumentative essays.[/i:51ec5c5b0d]

They talk about the Clich & have a link to [b:51ec5c5b0d] The Dead/Evil/Insane Lesbian Grid[/b:51ec5c5b0d]. It covers film/TV from Tara back to 1919, & it's a long, long list

www.quiknet.com/~lcountry/cliche.html
This is a list of examples of the way gays and lesbians end up dead or evil when portrayed on Television or on film. Any time a minority is shown exclusively in one fashion, in this case miserable, that image becomes the accepted societal belief.

If the name is in brackets, that is the ACTRESS NAME or a CHARACTER DESCRIPTION. If you know the character name, or if you have another example of the clich, please email me at lcountry@quiknet.com Please put "Clich example" in the subject heading.

Any character marked with (cc) is referenced in the Necrology from the Celluloid Closet, by Vito Russo, 1987. Harper & Row. (ISBN 0-06-96132-5)

This list is by no means comprehensive.

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Tara Maclay Reoccurring character for 2 years. Never given regular status
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Buffy the Vampire Slayer "Seeing Red"       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Shot through the heart in front of her lover Willows just after making love. The shows production staff made public promises to not kill Tara or use the clich then killed her anyway.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired May 2002.

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Willow RosenburgSeries Regular
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Buffy the Vampire Slayer "Seeing Red"       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - INSANE[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Went back to her addict ways and then psychopathically insane after her lover's murder and skinned a man alive and then burned his body, then tried to kill her best friend and destroy the world. (Called a "good lesbian role model" by Buffy writer Jane Espenson.)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired May 2002.

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
(Crazy lesbian) One shot villain
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
ER (???)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - INSANE[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
A delusional lesbian stabs her dorm mate and kills her. The lesbian loved her friend and went insane when the straight roommate decided to move away from her "weird friend."
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired Season 12 2002

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Victor DaSilva
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
CSI "Evaluation Day"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
When Victor dumped Fred, Fred was enraged and killed Victor. When Victor wouldn't fit in a trunk, Fred cut off his head.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 2002

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Fred Applewhite
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
CSI "Evaluation Day"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Fred is enraged when his lover Victor dumps him so he kills Victor. When Fred chops off Victors head to make him fit in a trunk.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 2002

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Alica Milford One shot villain
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "The girl mostly likely."
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - INSANE[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Fearing that she will be outted by her girlfriend Julie Cade coming out, she murders Julie by bashing her head against a washing machine.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired season 12 2000

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
(Priest )       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "Eyewitness"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
The priest testifies for a criminal, and helps get him acquitted. Later he is shown kissing the accused in the bathroom. He lied to get his gay lover acquitted.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 2002

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
(Suspect)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "Eyewitness"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
A criminal is set free after a priest testifies for him. Later he is seen kissing the priest. The two gay lovers lied to get him acquitted.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 2002

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Julie Cade One shot victim
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "The girl mostly likely."
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
After being attacked by a group of boys who try to rape her, Julie decides to come out. She is murdered by her closeted lover Alica. The boys get off with a slap on the wrist.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired season 12

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Joey Heric Reoccurring MURDERER who always gets acquitted.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "The Return of Joey Heric"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Joey Heric is a reoccurring character. Each time he appears, it is clear that he gets away with murder. In this episode he frames a lover for a killing he did. He had already murdered two of his gay lovers.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired2002

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Bradford Mardel       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "Phobic"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Bradford Mardel and his life-partner Donald try to adopt their foster son. The childs birth father finds out that gay men want to adopt his son and murders Bradford.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Season 11

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
(Gay lover)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "the Candidate"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
A man is murdered in Senator Ellisons bed. The senator is suspected because its assumed the man was sleeping with Ellisons wife. The show ends with the shocking news that the dead lover was sleeping Senator Keith Ellison. The senator goes to jail for the murder he didnt commit rather than admit he is gay.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 2001

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Shannon Wallace
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
ER (???)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - INSANE[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Distraught because she is gay, Shannon parks her car on a train track, causing the death of dozens. She survives only to falsely accuse a lesbian doctor of molesting her.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 2001

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Larry
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
After finally coming out to Xander, Larry is eaten by a giant snake.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - ??

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
(Lesbian #2)One shot villain
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Ally McBeal (???)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
#1 is married and having an affair with #2. They murder #1s husband and blame a retarded man.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - ??

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Joey Herics (lover) one shot victim
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "Another day"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Shown only as a dead victim of multiple killer Joey Heric.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1998

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Joey HericReoccurring guest star- murderer.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "Another day"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Joey Heric murders another gay lover and is again acquitted. He is last seen gloating.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1998

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Lucy Berliner - Main character
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
High Art
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
a lesbian finally finds true love only to die after shooting heroine with her ex-lover.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] -1998

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
*** Kathy- Life-partner of Detective Abby SullivanReoccurring character***
[b:51ec5c5b0d] [i:51ec5c5b0d] CLICH HAT TRICK! 1 dead, 1 devastated & 1 evil lesbian.[/i:51ec5c5b0d][/b:51ec5c5b0d]        
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
NYPD Blue S5- Episode 3 "Three Girls and a Baby"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Kathy and her lover pregnant lover Abby decide to have a family. Kathy is killed and Abby is shot during an apparent robbery. Eventually Abby points to an obsessive bitter ex-girlfriend as the mastermind behind the murder attempt. Abbys murderously jealous ex-girlfriend is last seen yelling out promises of love to Abby.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1997

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
***Abby Sullivan Reoccurring character ***       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
NYPD Blue S5- Episode 3 "Three Girls and a Baby"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEVASTATED[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Abby is thrilled when she gets pregnant so she and her life-partner Kathy they can have a family. Abby is shot and Kathy is killed by Abbys angry ex-girlfriend. Abby is left alone and bereaved. She has not dated since.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1997

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
*** (Exgirlfriend) One shot villain***
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
NYPD Blue S5- Episode 3 "Three Girls and a Baby"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - INSANE[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Murders her ex-girlfriends lover Kathy and shoots her ex Abby as well. Last seen shouting paranoid promises of love to her wounded ex-girlfriend.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1997

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Joey Heric Reoccurring guest star. Murderer.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "Betrayal"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome -EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Joey murders his lover. He is acquitted and last seen smugly gloating over it.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1997

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
(Joey Herics gay lover) one shot victim
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "Betrayal"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Murdered by his insane lover, Joey Heric.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1997

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Mrs. Janaway
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order/ Homicide crossover "Baby its you" Parts I and II
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome -EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Mrs. Janaway confesses that she raped her own daughter, a14 year-old girl who died from toxic shock as a result of the rape.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1997 98 season

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
(gay murderer)       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Practice "Hide and Seek"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome -EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
guilty of torturing and murdering two young boys.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1997

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Talia Winters
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Babylon 5 "Divided Loyalties"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - INSANE-then-DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
In the episode she finally spends the night with Commander Susan Ivanova, an alien mind control device destroys Talias mind. She is later reported dead, killed so her brain could be studied
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1995

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Councilman Durban
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "Pride"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
an outspoken, anti-gay councilman murders Councilman Durban.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1994 95 season

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Father Joe Kolinsky
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "Bad Faith"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Father Joe Kolinsky is a gay priest who abuses over 30 young boys.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1994 95 season

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Mr. Hexter
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "Mayhem"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Mr. Hexter is falsely accused of being a serial killer. He refuses to give his alibi, that he was with his gay lover, for fear of being outted. Before he can be released, Hexter dies in jail, stabbed by another inmate.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1993-94 season

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Officer Newhouse
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "Manhood"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Officer Newhouses called for backup are ignored because he is gay. He is brutally shot and killed by drug dealers while two officers sit around the corner listening to his pleas for help.       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1993

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
James Vogel       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "Silence"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Gay councilman James Vogel refuses to pay-off his blackmailing gay prison penpal. Vogel is stabbed and thrown off a building to his death. Vogels father must be forced to testify because he would rather see the killer set free than risk "tarnishing his sons good name" by having him outted.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1992

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Cicely One shot victim       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Northern Exposure "Cicely"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Cicely and her lover Roslyn found a town, but Cicely is shot and killed. She dies in Roslyns arms.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1992

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
RoslynOne shot victim
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Northern Exposure "Cicely"       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - Reported DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Lesbian Roslyn is devastated after her lover Cicely is shot dead. A rumor reports that Roslyn later died as a member of the Lincoln Brigade.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1992

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Jack Curry one shot villain
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
Law and Order "the Reapers helper"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Jack Curry is a gay man who illegally assists AIDS victims die. He is prosecuted for murder but is acquitted.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - Aired 1990

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Chris (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Boys Next Door"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1986

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Miriam Blaylock - Main character
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
The Hunger
[[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - UNDEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
After seducing formerly straight (Susan Sarandon), Miriam is attacked by (Sarandon) and left in her coffin to suffer for eternity.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1983

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Richie (cc)       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Streamers"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1983

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Douglas (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Fan"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1981

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Joey (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Cruising"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1980

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Loren Lucas (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Cruising"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1980

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Ted Bailey (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Cruising"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1980

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
the transvestite (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"And Justice for All"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Suicide by hanging.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1980

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Andrea Glassen
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Windows"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL/INSANE[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
A psychotic lesbian, Andrea Glassen, pursues the woman she's attracted to by hiring a man to rape her. She hopes the straight woman will turn to her for love and comfort and away from men.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1980

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Colin (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Long Good Friday"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1979

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Loren Hardeman (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Betsy"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Suicide by poison
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1978

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
(Michael Mills) (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
" The Choirboys "
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Shot dead trying to help a cop he has a crush on.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1977

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Myles (cc)       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Eiger Sanction"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Left to die by exposure in the wilderness
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1975

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Nameless homosexual (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Day of the Jackal"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
shot to death
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1973

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
"Mommy" (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Cleopatra Jones"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
the lesbian drug dealer is shot and killed.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1973

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Meredith Merridew (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Theatre of Blood"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1973

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Mrs. Watkins
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"They Only Kill their Masters"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - EVIL[/b:51ec5c5b0d]:
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1972

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
B.Z. (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Play It as It Lays"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Murdered, beaten to death
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1972

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Nameless transvestite (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Freebie and the Bean"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1971

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Rocky (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Fortune and Mens Eyes"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
suicide by straight razor
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1971

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Kidd (cc)       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Diamonds are Forever"       
[[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
The effeminate villain is murdered by drowning
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1971

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Wint (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Diamonds are Forever"       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
The effeminate villain is murdered by drowning
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1971

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Anna Quadri       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Conformist"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Married Anna lusts after the beautiful Giulia. Anna is brutally shot to death.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1970

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
The homosexual (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Justine"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1969

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Jill Banford Main character
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Fox"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
After seducing innocent (Anne Heywood), Jill walks outside in a sexual haze... and is killed by a falling tree.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1968

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Sergeant Callan
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Sergeant"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
the Effeminate sergeant commits suicide with a shotgun
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1968

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Felix (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Detective"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Dies in the electric chair
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1968

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Colin Maclver (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Detective"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
suicide. Leaps to his death
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1968

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Teddy Lineman (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Detective"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered, bludgeoned to death
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1968

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Alexandre (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"This Special Friendship"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
commits suicide
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1967

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Dr. Clancy (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Caprice"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Murdered, pushed from a balcony
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1967

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Rosa Klebb (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"From Russia with Love"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
the butch lesbian lusts after the straight femme. Klebb ends up murdered.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1963

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Brig Anderson (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Advise and Consent"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
commits suicide by straight razor.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1962

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Hallie Gerard (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Walk on the Wildside"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
murdered
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1962

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Jo - Main character
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Walk on the Wildside"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] [b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - [/b:51ec5c5b0d][/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Jo is a butch madam at a brothel. Jos pursuit of a straight prostitute ends with the young woman dead, and Jo sent off to prison.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1962

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Martha Dobie - Main Character
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"The Children's Hour"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
The movie focuses on two female friends wrongly accused of being lovers. In the end, Martha realizes she is a lesbian and commits suicide by hanging.
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1961.

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Sebastian Venable (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Suddenly Last Summer"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Sebastian talks his female cousin into luring men so he can take advantage of them. Sebastian is killed and cannibalized
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1959

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Evelyn Harper (cc)       
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Caged"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
stabbed to death
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1950

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Countess Alesca (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Draculas Daughter"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
staked through the heart
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1936

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Manuela (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Mdchen in Uniform"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome -INSANE[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
attempts Suicide
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1931 & 1958

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Countess Geschwitz (cc)
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Pandoras Box"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Beaten to death
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1929

[b:51ec5c5b0d] Character[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Paul Korner
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Film/Show[/b:51ec5c5b0d]       
"Anders als die Anderen"
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Outcome - DEAD[/b:51ec5c5b0d]
Suicide by poison
[b:51ec5c5b0d] Date[/b:51ec5c5b0d] - 1919

[BBOvenGuy]

We won't know for sure until tomorrow night, but in all likelihood you can add Detective Shakima Greggs from HBO's [i:188b209071] The Wire[/i:188b209071] to that list. She got shot in an undercover drug bust that went wrong at the end of last week's episode. They didn't say for sure that she was dead, but it sure looked that way to me.

And this particular episode also featured a scene where she was at a bar with her gf and some other lesbian friends, too.

[Hyo Shin]

>Character
>Countess Alesca (cc)
>Film/Show
>"Dracula's Daughter"
>Outcome - DEAD
>staked through the heart
>Date - 1936

First, her name is Countess Marya Zaleska. And I don't think she was staked. It was an arrow.

[feena191]

I just copied+pasted (a lot) from the site, so what's there is what's here.

[Elianna]

Hi Feena.

I don't know if I'm the first to point this out, but I believe that list was made by Lisa of Nine, and is on Ivanova's webpage, both of whom are members of this board. Congratulations to them.

~Elianna, who is going to now go and look up their actual aliases, and hopefully in a few minutes, you won't see this.

[BBOvenGuy]

Update on HBO's [i:718d74cc9a] The Wire[/i:718d74cc9a]:

According to my cable company's promo blub, Detective Greggs is [b:718d74cc9a] not[/b:718d74cc9a] dead!


She is, however, in intensive care, which means she won't be in on any of the action and she might still die. But still, the clich hasn't struck [b:718d74cc9a] yet[/b:718d74cc9a], and at least that's something.

[Sheridan]

The problem with cops shows is that if you have a lesbian character who isn't one of the cops then she is likely to be a criminal or a victim, and since cops shows tend to focus on violent crime that has inevitable consequences. If they are a police officer then there are always the going to be plotlines where a cop is shot or killed, and it works best if the character is popular, regardless of orientation. The difference with Tara was that Joss was setting everyone up from the get go.

[BBOvenGuy]

Well, with [i:70f07a363d] The Wire[/i:70f07a363d], my beef wasn't so much a question of "Why did they shoot the lesbian?" as it was one of "Why was Greggs the only woman police officer?"

The story was moving in such a way that it made sense to have a drug bust go terribly wrong, which usually means people get shot. And given that their snitch was a man, it made sense to have the undercover officer be a woman posing as his girlfriend. Kima got the job because she was the only woman police officer on the show - but why is that? It doesn't make sense to me that there would be [b:70f07a363d] no[/b:70f07a363d] other women around.

In any event, though, you're absolutely right in saying that this is nothing like Willow and Tara. The producers of [i:70f07a363d] The Wire[/i:70f07a363d] made no promises about Kima, or said anything about her at all, really. She's just a lesbian cop doing her job alongside all the other cops.

[Sheridan]

[quote:8332fd8dcf][b:8332fd8dcf][i:8332fd8dcf]Quote:[/i:8332fd8dcf][/b:8332fd8dcf]

---

She's just a lesbian cop doing her job alongside all the other cops.

---

[/quote:8332fd8dcf]

I guess that was what I was trying to say, you have to look a the logic of the situation the show works in. If Sandy the firefighter died in the line of duty in ER then that would be sad, but she would be far from the first emergency services person to die in the course of their work on that show. Tara was not a cop or a firefighter, what happened to her was jarring and out of place, and the connection between death and lesbian sex was firnly established, which I'm guessing was absent from 'The Wire'.

[feena191]

hi Elianna

Definate congrats to them, it must have taken ages to collect all that info.

Feena
-x-

[tommo]

[quote:a5f95aa562][b:a5f95aa562][i:a5f95aa562]Quote:[/i:a5f95aa562][/b:a5f95aa562]

---

[b:a5f95aa562] Tara was not a cop or a firefighter, what happened to her was jarring and out of place, and the connection between death and lesbian sex was firnly established[/b:a5f95aa562]

---

[/quote:a5f95aa562]

Right. But you know, it was the whole pacing of the storyline that put it right out of place. Thus far, Willow and Tara had been taking things slowly and whilst I truly appreciate the sentiments behind that kiss in [b:a5f95aa562] Entropy[/b:a5f95aa562], it was all very fast and rushed.

And that just brings me back to the whole notion of why Tara died in the first place. I mean, a cop or a firefighter must stand a higher chance of being in the line of a bullet, or other such life-threatening situations. I suppose now I'm looking at this whole storyline again, I'm starting to wonder why anyone thought this might be dramatic. Because to me, it just seems like hyperbole.