Discussion S6E18 Entropy

[Grimaldi]

I really liked this episode. The W/T scenes were so cute and good. I never thought I'd see a kiss like that on broadcast television, that was the best moment of the season
Dawn wasn't annoying in this ep. She really went on a crime spree, wonder what she did with the stuff that wasn't found?
Loved Anya, when she was going to the gang trying to get them to make a wish, I was laughing so hard. Somebody needs to teach her how to be more subtle. Really don't get Spike, why is it so important for everyone to know about him and Buffy? I used to like Xander, but after this ep. I wish he would just go. His reaction to Anya/Spike was so predictable, Anya was right he is an immature child. The scene were the Geeks were using that disk reminded me of the part in Raiders of the Lost Ark where Indiana uses the medallion to locate the Ark.
What was the point of trying to hide Anya's necklace?

[WebWarlock]

That at the end of Entropy right before the W/T tounge-fest 2002 that Willow's dress from OMWF was hanging on the door?

I HAS to mean something, I just don't know what.
Remember, nothing spoilery here.

Warlock.

[kpmuse]

I noticed too. It's not a coincidence. I think the dress is there to remind us of the Floatey goodness had by Tara and Willow the last time she wore that beauty!

[Warduke]

About the length of the kiss, I just timed it again with my watch (I had used my VCR's clock before and again I got 12 seconds, almost 13 actually) so if you're not getting that time, then you've been screwed

[mollyig]

The dress being there and the comment about the magic I think serve to remind just how far Willow has come (ahem!) in terms of dealing with her over-use of magic.

[Scout]

The kiss was cut in the DC market - damn Republicans. hehe
The ending felt abrupt, so I counted and it was about 9 seconds. Still, much goodness and passion and love to enjoy.

Aside from Willow and Tara, this ep continued the 'god, can we get any more depressing' parade that has become Buffy this year. The W/T stuff made up for it though.

The W/T conversation outside of class was so great. Tara came off so much more playful and sexy than it read in the script. The woman had Willow in her sights from the start. And the coffee date was very funny - especially when Anya said they were bad lesbians. hee hee

I don't want to make too much of it, but I have to say that the Xander wish right before Anya reveals for the first time that she's a VD felt so deliberate. And then Hallie pointing out to the audience and Anya that she can grant the wishes of scorned men - well, after tonight Xander is a scorned man. I don't know if they'll do anything with it, but it's out there now.

I guess the Tabula Rasa tease has finally been answered. Who would have guessed it would come in such a great way. And to sum it all up - black leather. yum

[nora]

*thud*
*
*
*
*
Surgeon General's Warning: Do not watch unspoiled. Serious heart damage may result.

That said, 12 seconds! We only got like 9!

I seek vengeance!!!

-Nora

*edited to add: Just wanted to say thanks to xita for her clip. I now have all 12.57 seconds and vengeance will not be required. Sitting down now to watch and rewatch and re-rewatch...

[TrueXena]

12.57 seconds by my frame count.

From the first frame of their lips touching to the last frame before the credits show. It is a total of 12.57 seconds.

(but who is counting?)

[Puff]

Don't think I got the whole thing here, but damn the stuff I got was good

[isolde(d)]

Loving the major smoochies going on, and indeed, the Willow and Tara stuff (especially them in the coffee shop and Anya's "What kind of lesbians are you?") was the best part of the episode. The rest of it kind of just depressed me, with the possible exception of the closeness of Buffy and Dawn. It was cute when Buffy became the "mom" ("When did that happen?").

I loved Xander's exit - and especially what happened right afterwards, when Spike started to make a wish about Xander and Anya stopped him. She really does (did?) love Xander. Basically, Anya always cracks me up, but mostly because of Emma's delivery. I can't imagine anyone else pulling off some of those lines.

Right, so by and large this was a pretty serious episode, not too many happy things... but, wait, there was much kissing between Willow and Tara, so... yeah, a totally redeemable episode!

[Dave V]

ScoopMe.com has their review up:
scoopme.com/tv/articles/d...e_id=60163

Entropy: Ouch
by Jen Sonstein
4/30/2002

If wishes were nickels, Anya would be surrounded by the money she so loves.

Its common, when youre in a jam or a rough spot or in a black hole of pain and misery, to wish yourself out of it. Unfortunately, for those of us who remain powerless even after purchasing a book of spells at Urban Outfitters, wishing doesnt cut it. Anya, after giving it the old college try, eventually realizes that her need to feel better is not as easy as wishing herself out of her own misery. In fact, when she finally succeeds in hurting Xander, its clear to her that his pain only makes hers worse.

The Scoobies and their extensions are on the road to recovery. Anya and Spike are trying to paste together the shattered pieces of their not-quite-exactly-human hearts. Xander and Buffy are still sorting out the whys and hows of their feelings of the afore-mentioned coupling. Willow and Tara, we learn by episodes end, have reached a juncture where the pain has subsided and the healing can begin. Dawnie is on her own Recovery Road trying to find a way to pay for the trouble shes caused to the Magic Box and the malls of Sunnydale.

Its funny, and somewhat telling, that even in show about magic, the answer to heartbreak is still in booze and thoughtless sex. That, when in search of pain relief, the easiest remedy is hurting the one who hurt you.

Even Spike, lacking that bit of human emotion and experience Anya actually possesses, does not share this realization. Like a broken record of lies, we hear Spike claim to love Buffy. That he wont hurt her. Yet, he continues to find ways to do just that.

Im constantly torn about Spike. Hes quite the charmer. I want to like him. But just when Im about to fall for his warped brand of saccharine puppy love, Im reminded of what a dog he really is. Trying to blackmail Buffy with threats of divulging their secret. And then finally letting the cat out of the bag in the most inappropriate of situations! He had every right to join Anya in a pity party, and who can blame either of them for looking to the other for comfort, but Spike proved once again to be selfish and immature. Numbing the pain wasnt enough for him. Spike wants Buffy to hurt like he hurts.

Fortunately, Buffy is presently in a pretty good place to be handling the situation. Freed from the looney bin, and riding high on feelings of self-confidence thanks to support from friends and family, Buffy takes Spikes taunting with a grain of salt. She makes it clear to Spike from the beginning of the episode that shes not interested in making deals with him regarding their past or present. However, in confronting him, shes also kind and compassionate.

Even when Spike deserves less.

She gets the High Road Award for the evening. Buffy, who hasnt been the picture of maturity in the past (despite having to grow up faster than the average teen), showed her grownup side in a good way this ep. Too bad she didnt take the time for a sit down with Xander, who is in desperate need of grownup advice.

Xander, for all the time hes spent with women, for all of his girlish sensitivity, hes missing something when it comes to "getting it." Lack of a positive role model in a father could have something to do with it. Whatever his reasons for screwing up, its still apparent hes tremendously sorry and completely ashamed of the way he abandoned Anya. Hes obviously been beating himself up over it. It even seems hes made some progress in the maturing department, as he begins explaining his situation to Anya. Yet, in typical Xander fashion, he flubs his lines. Xanders not a bad guy; hes still just too young and immature. For the same reasons he couldnt marry Anya weeks ago, he doesnt quite get how to explain to her why.

Anya, however, is as sharp and as biting and as Go Girl, as ever. "Congratulations, Xander on being honest now. I wonder what the medal will say," she says to him in response to his practiced speech. Her words, at least those bearing little resemblance to attempts at vengeance spells, were right on. Especially in her response to Xanders accusations in the final scene, when Anya calls him on all his flaws. "The mature solution is for you to spend your whole life telling stupid, pointless jokes so no one will notice youre just a scared, insecure little boy."

Bingo.

Featuring the two romantic situations in such close comparison, Xander and Anyas versus Buffy and Spikes, its plain to see that one is born of love and the other contempt. To then compare those two gruesome twosomes with Willow and Taras interaction is even more revealing.

Willow and Tara, who seem to be on the mend, have the most adult relationship of the bunch. Rather than falling into a cyclical trap of pain, Willow and Tara have done all they can to achieve a healthy recovery. Tara walked away from Willow, despite her feelings of love, when she knew it was the best thing for the relationship. And, after a bumpy start, Willow has been doing what she can to be the type of person Tara wants to return to. Their work on their relationship, from both the inside and out, worked.

Theirs is a lesson to be learned.

"Time is the glue that bonds a broken heart," someone once said, "but love is the air which dries the glue."

Love is not prevalent in the air right now. Pain is. The parties need to take a step back from romance, from sex, from all things carnal knowledge and focus on the big bad showdown thats about to rear its ugly head.

The plot line moved. Thanks. Were back in the game. Thanks. Now give us some action.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

By the way, the only definition for entropy in three dictionaries that made any sense to me was "inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society." Discuss.

[ruby]

Dr. G, I didn't mean to overstate the "mind control" thing, nor to detract from the amazingness that is Willow and Tara. I was thinking of when Tara looked up the meaning of Lethe's Bramble in OMWF and the entry read, "Used for augmenting spells of forgetting and mind control." That's it. Well, that and the fact that Tara herself described it as a "violation."

The fact that they can rebuild from that point, and that their love is powerful enough to overcome it, makes the kiss that much more profound and thrilling. Believe me, I want them together as much as anyone.

When I referred to the dress, and its presence in the scene, I was just thinking out loud. Because for me, the gorgeousness of the love scene in OMWF was kind of bittersweet, knowing that Tara--though certainly in love--was under the influence of a spell. But, you know? The dress could mean something else.

OK, let's get back to that kiss, please! I love the way you can see the overwhelming emotion pass across Tara's face when they first begin to kiss. She's practically crying with joy and relief. And then it's just pure goodness. And her face says more more more more.

[TrueXena]

I noticed the dress, though I think I noticed the kiss more than anything else. I did notice the dress though. Do I get a cookie for noticing the dress?

And you just KNOW there is a reason that dress is hanging there. It is not Joss' style to just have things in episodes all 'willy nilly' like. So it has to mean something.

Ohh and back to the kiss. mmm mmm good. Still makes my tummy do the 'flippy-flops' everytime I see it. (going on the 2 millionth time now)

Edited to add: HEY! When did I get all "Extra Flamey"?? Cool.

[The Rose24]

Jen sums up my thoughts perfectly all of the time. Thanks again, Jen.

[imperfectly]

"Buffy Watch" review from Jeff Jensen at Entertainment Weekly. Check it out here.
[b:b2f23ea6f5] (WARNING: Ever so slight, very mild spoilerish speculation in the very last line...)[/b:b2f23ea6f5] Otherwise, read on

----------------

It's been many weeks since a new episode of ''Buffy the Vampire Slayer,'' and I, for one, was grateful for the break.

My well-documented disappointment with this season's mold-busting direction (character over plot, thematic Big Bads instead of literal Big Bads), coupled with the lethargic execution of this direction, had nearly exhausted all the stores of grace this series has earned with me after five years of exemplary service. But ''Buffy's'' return on April 30 was not unlike the episode's Willow/Tara reunion: Time had healed many (if not all) wounds, and what has always been lovable again became easily apparent.

Which is not to say ''Entropy'' was a great episode. But it was solid, and occasionally more than that, and offered hope for a provocative, even explosive conclusion to an otherwise thin, listless season.

What happened? Anya returned to Sunnydale after getting stranded at the altar by commitment-phobe boyfriend Xander. Anya, who has seemingly reclaimed her vengeance demon birthright during her time away, tried to trick Buffy and the rest of the Scoobies into wishing heinous forms of ill against her former fiance, which she as a vengeance demon would be duty bound to perform.

Emma Caulfield's rudely direct Anya has always been a source of comedy in this series, and much funny was generated by her vain attempts to get Dawn to wish for Xander's penis to explode (''I don't say that word,'' responded a shellshocked Dawn), or to manipulate Willow and Tara into succumbing to a hatred of men that doesn't exist for them (''What kind of lesbians are you?!'' Anya cried as she stomped away).

Eventually, Anya's thirst for jilted justice led to a night of shooting Jack Daniels with Spike, nursing a bitter, broken heart of his own after Buffy ended their secret love/lust affair. By this time, though, Anya had begun to realize that she must find a way to move on -- which is exactly what Buffy told Spike that he needed to do earlier in the episode. One thing led to another, and the drunken demons were soon exorcising their despair on top of a table in the Magic Shop.

Thanks to the miracle of an ultra-convenient subplot -- the discovery of secret surveillance cameras, planted by those Geeks of Doom Andrew, Warren and Jonathan -- the Scoobies were able to watch the sadsack sex via streaming video. Overwhelmed by disgust and jealousy, Xander grabbed an axe and marched down to the Magic Shop, but was prevented from killing Spike by both Buffy and Anya.

The four-way confrontation between heartbroken lovers -- in which Xander and Anya join Dawn in finally learning of the Buffy/Spike liaison -- was easily one of the best scenes the series has produced all year. (Kudos to the actors, especially the eternally underrated and too-often underutilized Nicholas Brendon.)

''Entropy'' gave us two major developments that seem to set the stage for the season's dramatic denouement. The first is that the Geeks of Doom have begun the endgame portion of their mysterious master plan. To which I say: Yawn. (Did anyone else find that forced ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'' joke/reference the height of lameness?) The second was that aforementioned Willow/Tara reunion, which culminated in an in-your-face girl-on-girl smooch. A moment of bliss for the two lovers, though something tells me they should enjoy it while it lasts.

[urnofosiris]

Ruby, I understand, but I am *very* sensitive when it comes to WT and any suggestion that somehow their love is under control of or due to or influenced by a spell. I am not saying that you think so, but mind control implies it.

They love each other truly and forever, that was the case before Willow did the forget spells and it is the case after she did them. Willow's spell did not influence or change the love between them, it was always there and always will be, it did influence their relationship of course, and Tara very wisely broke up, and now she is initiating a reunion out of her own free will. For whatever reason the dress was hanging on that door I do not know, but it does not suggest anything is going on in terms of the reason for their reunion or their love. Or so I will always believe.

A little while ago I commented (as others did before me) that the scoobies seem to be wearing something different every day, well I noticed, as I am sure others have as well, that the skirt Willow is wearing is the same one from The Real Me. Yum.

[LovePuddle]

I vote we rename episode 18 to:
"The Kiss Felt Around The World"

Man! What a KISS!!! I can't tell you how many times I replayed the scene. It had me shaking all over.


I'd like to know what other names the Kittens can come up with. I know you guys can be very CREATIVE.

[FaithfulGlory]

couple things

i also noticed the dress and wondered

and andrew's line about spike was...well...it makes a lot of sense

was buffy wearing the jacket that Dawn stole for her??

i loved Anya in this ep!
she was so funny!

i watched it at a friend's house so i missed parts and don't have it on tape- how i wish i did!

didn't like xander...icky

lots of funny here

now, i was completely unspoiled for this - actually, for anything - and my friend kept saying that she heard somebody was going to die this ep.
and i was going nuts
when tara went into willow's room i thought she was going to say that she was moving, leaving for good
and my friend said she probably was going to shoot herself
ouch, it was a painful viewing experience
i sooo did not think that was how she was going to end that speech but by God am i glad she did!

[MrA24]

First I have to say that I was jumping up and down and yelling hooray for lesbian smoochies.

now thats been said, did anyone else notice that Andrew is starting to show some REALLY pronounced homosexual tendencies. Someone has been dipping back into the celluloid closet again.

Face it Kitties, Mutant Enemy isn't above using these cliches. And like fire, all of us kitties are gonna get burned cuz we're getting too close.

[Lonewolf22]

Just wanted to give my two cents about the show;

First off the KISS, OMG man after sooooooooooo long our girls are back together how the BELONG, I loved how the whole scene played out it just so beautiful to see. I too noticed the dress the second time I saw the episode, it has to mean something, what I don't know but it just has to mean something.

Wish I could say more but I'm very emotional right now so I can't really think about anything else.

Lonewolf

[xita]

[quote:5b501f6281][b:5b501f6281][i:5b501f6281]Quote:[/i:5b501f6281][/b:5b501f6281]

---

EW says:

in-your-face girl-on-girl smooch.

---

[/quote:5b501f6281]

Oh yeah that was pretty much it. Yumm, i can't stop watching it and listening to the lyrics of that song and Tara's speech. Tara knows she's risking a lot, she knows it's premature but she loves Willow and knows that Willow really loves her and for "that kind of love" read the shooting script, "true love," for that it is worth it. It's what you risk when you love that much.

[Lindy]

The "If I wasn't gay before.." line cracked me up

And it reminded me that a friend of mine commented on the wig lady something along those lines: "Why do all those snake monsters on Buffy look like big penises? And should I wonder that a lesbian is cutting it off?"


Loved what I saw so far, can't wait till that damn download is finished.

The kiss scene (a big thanx to xita for this vid ) made my ears glow the first couple of times I saw it. I love that feeling .

[VampNo12]

Hell I thought the kiss ended abruptly, and spent too much time on the end credits. They trimmed about 3 to 4 seconds off the kiss where I live, and after watching the downloaded version for quite some time, would it really of killed them to keep the last few seconds. However, even with the cut that was one sexy, hot, passionate kiss! It's like all that time apart their love and passion built-up and needed release, and by god their expression of love was worth the wait!

As for Xander making a wish I thought it was significant that when he "Wished everything went back to the way things were (or words to that effect)" we see Anya in her demon face. At first I thought this was ME's way of just showing that Anya has returned to her vengeance demon roots, but now I wonder if the wish was granted. Should be interesting to see how this plays out as we come to the season finale of the show.

[tommo]

Xita, stop it. I'm feeling anxious now. It really [b:c6eaed5688] is[/b:c6eaed5688] worth risking your own rationale over loving someone that much, no matter how much you can base it in logic. Logically, Tara knows she has to take some more time, to see if things will work out, perhaps a date, perhaps something easy.

But dammit, it's not easy. And being with Willow that afternoon...I guess it was all just too much for her. And I'm so glad that it was. I'm so glad that it was too much for her to bear and I'm bloody ecstatic that she made the move towards Willow. And that the truth of all this is love. It kind of brings it home how important it is to love someone properly, you know? Wholly.

[Unregistered(d)]

And there was much rejocing amoungst the Kittens.

[imperfectly]

To steal a line from another wonderful love story:
[i:92ac493074] "Since the invention of the kiss, there have five kisses that were rated the most passionate, the most pure. This one left them all behind."[/i:92ac493074] -from the Princess Bride

To repeat my earlier, euphoric post (where I was so excited I forgot to login) that was the BEST KISS EVER on television. Lesbian, gay, straight. Period. It was so urgent. I mean, God, who doesnt want to be kissed like that

I liked this episode a lot. Maybe it was the long drought between new episodes, but this one seemed to bring the season back into form. Strong plot development. Deep characterization. And well, there is no amount of raving that would really sum up how great that kiss was.

I loved how realistic Taras struggle was in the doorway. She loves Willow (big duh). But her head knows its too soon. Human relations are more complicated than rocket science. At the end, though, the song sums it up perfectly. But the heart rules the mind.

On to next week

[Epicurus]

As Tara was standing at the door and Willow asked "Are you okay?" wow, the way she said that, so much worrying, so many uncertainties, it just melted my heart into a puddle of goo.

What I loved:
-The sound of Tara's voiceover at the beginning of the last scene.
-The kiss, obviously
-Anya telling them to go love men.
-Dawn trying to avoid making a w-i-s-h.
-Our girls are finally back together.

What I didn't love:
-Spike.
-Spankya sex.

[imperfectly]

Sarah Kuhns Entropy review is up HERE. She wasnt overly impressed, but liked the W/T stuff, natch.


------------------------
Buffy, "Entropy"
Tales of angst, bad hair and Jack Daniels.
By Sarah Kuhn
May 01, 2002

You know, for the longest time, I couldn't understand why some of my just-tuned-in Buffy friends had nothing but scorn for Xander. But after watching Mr. Harris' various misadventures this season, I think I know. During this ep, I had this crabby, "they should let me run things" revelation, the type of which I tend to scorn in other people the Buff scribes haven't kept him consistent this year.
In my not-so-humble opinion, the Xand we've established the funny, occasionally sad-sack guy who is possibly even more of a hero than the other Scoobs, since he is, after all, Just A Guy wouldn't have acted like such an assface to Anya. First, he leaves her to clean everything up at their mess of a wedding, then he pouts and screams and basically gets all holier-than-thou when she sleeps with Spike. Um, Xander? You got it on with Cordelia when she was still little more than a prom queen bitch with no shortage of mean comments about Willow's wardrobe. Shut up.
Now, some folks may argue that this version of Xand matches up with the Xand we saw at the end of season 2, the guy who purposefully didn't tell Buffy about Willow's soul spell for Angel. That was certainly a wonderfully ambiguous moment for the character, but I can understand it at the time, Angel's sins and his ability to hurt people were both far greater than Spike's. So, again: shut up, Xander. And get a better storyline.
As for the rest of the ep, it basically revolves around the aftermath of everything we saw pre-sweeps. Buffy, guilt-ridden over Dawn McStickyfingers' cries for attention, attempts to do the sisterly bonding thing, while Willow twitchily asks Tara out to coffee. Anya, still plenty pissed at Xand, attempts to get her vengeance on. Meanwhile, the Redshirts plot some more, and the Scoobs find out about the little hidden camera scam. Oh, and Spike and Anya have sex in the Magic Box. Because no episode this season can go by without at least a little humpin' in a totally inappropriate place!
Anyway, the general effect is middling. It kinda feels like we're so deep into everyone's angst-drenched relationships, we can't see anything else. I am nearly as sick of Buffy/Spike as I am of Joey/Dawson, and that's saying quite a lot. Xander and Anya? Already had their share of angst, so get over it. It's kind of annoying that there isn't merely one big angsty relationship to focus on at this point they're all angsty, and that makes for a high-pitched, somewhat melodramatic effect.
The Anya montage, wherein she attempts to get someone to curse Xander, is amusing ("What kind of lesbians are you?" she huffs to W&T, when they refuse to support a man-hating platform), but I was totally distracted by the supreme awfulness of her hair. Seriously. It's so cute in flippy in the scene where she confronts Xander, and then poof! Next scene, it's frizzier than Cameron "My shoe doubles as a comb!" Diaz's bedhead Oscar 'do, all wretched processed ringlets that make her look like a pissed off soccer mom.
[b:e278147f08] I did like the sweet naturalness of the W/T scenes not too angsty, not too sugary. Their banter is flip and non-gooey, and their passionate reconciliation scene feels earned. Loved the gossipy, easygoing vibe of their coffeehouse talk, too.[/b:e278147f08]
As for the Spike/Anya stuff...eh. Basically, Anya attempts to get Spike drunk so he'll make a wish and she can curse Xander...but then ends up getting mightily sozzled herself. (I bet they were secretly playing the Felicity drinking game, the one where you drink every time Felicity intones, "God!") I've always thought A and S had an interesting chemistry, and parts of the big scene are kind of poignant I especially like Spike's little head-nod to Anya as he's leaving the Box. But overall, the encounter falls flat I was kind of expecting their big make out scene to be a little more, I don't know, funny? Am I horrible, horrible person for wanting to see some funny mutual sympathy sex? Anything to relieve all the incredible sadness and heartbreak!
Anyway, the whole ep is kinda like that scene pockets of niceness in W/T and the Anya montage, but overall, it feels decidedly non-fizzy. Sigh. I guess I should have taken a cue from the characters pass the Jack Daniels.

[tommo]

Hmm. I would have thought that Sarah Kuhn might have focused more on the Willow/Tara interaction than she actually did. [i:123f0615c4] *shrugs*[/i:123f0615c4] However, she does love our girls.

[imperfectly]

I must agree. I thought Sarah would be all over (metaphorically) our girls and the goodness. But then, she does raise a valid point with Xander. Lets not be casting all these stones X-man Anyway.

On a slightly different note, a few seconds of cuts or not, this kiss is a big honking leap forward in the showing of gay affection on network TV. These arent metaphorical kisses or quick kisses or dear-god-dont-show-tongue kisses. These are [b:6ab8acbc1d] kisses[/b:6ab8acbc1d]. Big wet smacky ones coinciding with groping and extreme closeness. I mean, remember what big deal was made out of the stupid non-kiss between Ally and Ling. How it was such a huge risqu thing. This kiss blew that one through the roof and into another zip code. This kiss had passion and was obviously leading to nakedness. Woohoo for TV.