Discussion S6E18 Entropy

[xita]

Yeah, Sarah likes our girls but her reviews are much shorter than they used to be. Actually it's great that such a passionate kiss between women goes under the radar. It's great. I think the networks might ease on lesbians in the future, who knows.

Now, the rest of the show. I really don't like Xander because he never gave a thought to what Anya may want. I really was on her side on this. I know it wasn't right to go sleep with Spike but Xander was in no position to act so superior.

[SisterDebMac]

I didn't know it until I came here tonight (2 1/2 hours ago, but who's counting?) that it was cut here in Atlanta but it definitely was. I'm kinda surprised and definitely saddened that any station felt they had to do that. Did anyone see last week's THE SHIELD? I stop at it once in a while because there's nothing interesting opposite it in my market and because there's a cop on it who also happens to be a very sexy, soulful gay man. Last week, he had a long shirtless scene with his hustler boyfriend. They kissed passionately and then the hustler started kissing down the cop's torso but his head remained enough in frame to see that the cop was about to get a bj. Then, the show's main cop-guy bursts in and arrests the hustler boyfriend and mocks the gay cop. It started out kinda hot and turned ugly.

This show airs on was on FX, where BUFFY repeats. You think they'll allow the whole sweet kiss between our beautiful, loving duo to run in its entirety over there when the time comes?

I'm wondering, just in terms of broadcast television, have we really come all that far?

[eekdgeek]

Tara was so elated w/ kissing Willow, she actually tiptoed in the first few seconds of the kiss... lol! check it out if you haven't noticed it yet... pax

[AutumnT]

Heh. I just thought she was grinding herself against Willow.

[girlwiththebraids]

more thoughts...

still floating from the kissy goodness...but here it was also about 9 seconds by my count...

i kind of agree with sarah kuhn's statement that this season's xander has been an inconsistent one, (oh for the xander i once loved...where has he gone?)
but i will say that for me, i think that anya drags him down...but as for his reaction to her and spike, well, i kinda thought it was unsurprising...because there are two "people" in the world who xander cannot be rational about...angel and spike...because at the root of it all, xander is "just a guy" and that's where his heroism is...but his tragic flaw...he loves buffy a little too much...even though he was angry that anya slept with spike, he hates spike more for his attraction to buffy than for anything else...

willow has broken down so many barriers this season to get strong and find her way back to tara's arms (and lips ) i just hope the rest of them catch up ... buffy's on her way there!

braids

[Warduke]

[quote:521b967009][b:521b967009][i:521b967009]Quote:[/i:521b967009][/b:521b967009]

---

...but i will say that for me, i think that anya drags him down...

---

[/quote:521b967009]

Oh really? Because I always thought she was too good for him. He never deserved her love and she's better off without him.

[girlwiththebraids]

[b:965fc77f32] warduke[/b:965fc77f32]...i think we can agree on one thing, at least...we like them better apart

braids

[kpmuse]

Eekdgeek said:
Tara was so elated w/ kissing Willow, she actually tiptoed in the first few seconds of the kiss... lol! check it out if you haven't noticed it yet... pax

Okay, if I must I will go watch that darned thing again!

I was pretty incensed about the cuttage to the broadcast kiss that I couldn't help myself and I sent a rather cutting email to my local UPN programming department. You know. Just so they know that I appreciated the telecast, but I also want to see the full representation of lesbian images on my screen as brought to us by the creators of the show.

The clip of the kiss has been on constant repeat here in my house since yesterday. Never get tired of it! Wow!

[AutumnT]

Yeah I wrote to my UPN affiliate tonight too and let them know that indeed Buffy fans actully [b:30178c4952] do[/b:30178c4952] know that Willow and Tara are lesbians and in the future if they want to "protect" us from something perhaps they might want to cut some of the Buffy and Spike violently snogging against a wall stuff instead of two girls in love kissing.

[Zooey42]

I don't have a UPN channel on my stupid cable system, so a friend tapes the eps for me off her satellite dish. The UPN affiliate she gets is from New York. And they cut the kiss down to about 5 seconds. Or maybe it just [i:afcfd9559f] seemed[/i:afcfd9559f] way too short to me! Hmmm...I'd better go back and time it.

I haven't had time to read this whole thread, so I'm sure this has been brought up before, but what was [i:afcfd9559f] up[/i:afcfd9559f] with Anya's hair??? It looked great in the first scene with Xander when it was straight, then they had to curl it, and her 'do then changed from scene to scene. Were the hairstylists smoking crack when that ep was shot?

[LovePuddle]

I also don't get the UPN station and depend on a friend to tape it for me. I'm in Austin,Tx and I only counted about a 9 second kiss but what really pissed me off was

[b:104184d7e0] edited spoilers[/b:104184d7e0]

In the downloads she looks absolutely amazing in each clip and I was hoping to have that recorded!!!

Damn.

[Denial Queen]

wow, from 3 kisses in the body to almost a dozen (if you include all the lip biting as kisses ). We've sure come a long way.

Anyway, i was hoping if someone could give an explanation as to tara's sudden change in mood. she seemed to be in a totally different mood during the coffee date and perhaps even after it. I feel like i missed something in between that and the final scene.

[La]

Wow. I'd forgotten how nice it was to watch an episode without having read the wildfeed first.

The kiss was beautiful. That last scene ... sigh ... I was tearing up. That kiss will be played over and over and over and over and over ...

[urnofosiris]

Kitties, when talking about this episode [b:2ea3efca1e] do not mention or hint at any spoilers or rumours about future episodes.[/b:2ea3efca1e]

[Lisa of Nine]

The UPN station KMAX 31 (Sacramento &Northern Cal) cut several seconds off the Willow and Tara kiss at the end of Entrophy.
Please email them and let them know that we do not appreciate it.
You might mention that they do not cut the graphic and violent sex scenes between Buffy and Spike. Don't forget to ask them to NOT cut anymore W&T scenes in future episodes.
Thanks,
Lisa
upn31.com/contactKMAX/

[Scout]

Denial Queen
[quote:d44136f87a][b:d44136f87a][i:d44136f87a]Quote:[/i:d44136f87a][/b:d44136f87a]

---

Anyway, i was hoping if someone could give an explanation as to tara's sudden change in mood. she seemed to be in a totally different mood during the coffee date and perhaps even after it. I feel like i missed something in between that and the final scene.

---

[/quote:d44136f87a]
I agree that it seemed like we were missing something because Tara's mood was so light on the date, but so somber in the bedroom. IMO, I think what they didn't show was Tara reaching the conclusion that she wasn't going to be able to take it slow and just date Willow. Being with Willow over these last few eps and seeing the progress that Willow has made earned back enough of the trust (not all of it, but enough) for her to follow her heart and decide that they could work things out as a couple.

As Xita pointed out (I think it was Xita), Tara knew she was taking a big risk, but she decided that for that kind of love it was worth it. This heavy realization coupled with the strong physical need she had to be with Willow manifested itself in her demeanor at the bedroom door.

So basically in between the date and the final scene, Tara had been thinking some deep thoughts.

[kpmuse]

Did you notice in the scene at college in the hallway that while talking and being flirty with Tara, that Willow kinda pokes her tongue out not once, but twice, while smiling at Tara. God bless Aly!

Yet one more reason to watch their scenes over and over and over again! The nuances and extra hotness found there. I tell ya!

Oh yeah, there was the rest of the show too. Loved how
Anya tried to get the Scoobs to wish vengence on Xander. Very funny. In fact, I thought Emma did a fantastic job throughout the show portraying her hurt and anger.

[AutumnT]

This is the response I got back from my local affiliate whose kiss definitely has about 5 seconds cut off from the wildfeed I saw:
[quote:4d99793952][b:4d99793952][i:4d99793952]Quote:[/i:4d99793952][/b:4d99793952]

---

"We aired the show exactly as it was fed to us by UPN. We did not make any edits to it here locally.

We receive all UPN programming via satellite and it is prerecorded. There is not even enough time for us to modify the tapes if we wanted to as they are live to air."

---

[/quote:4d99793952]

I wonder if there were two wildfeeds.

[tommo]

Oh god Autumn, don't say that. I mean, that just gives folks all sorts of...well, you know what I mean. But yes, perhaps there were.

I actually liked the huge contrast between Tara's mood in the coffee shop and her mood in the bedroom later on. For me, that really underlined how deep this goes for her. Being with Willow and having her keep on saying stuff about being "friends" probably brought it all home to Tara that that's not what she wants at all. And although they're both making efforts to do just that, it's not going to work. Seeing Willow well and happy (kinda) and just the way she was when Tara first fell in love with her must have been excruciating. And I think it's only on second thoughts that Tara actually decided to go over to the Summers' house.

Some kittens have suggested that Tara turning up at Willow's bedroom was a "booty call". Well yeah, I guess if you want to see it that way then you can. But it's so much more than that. It's a call of the heart, and a call of the soul. And when something, and some[b:9aa1166bb3] one[/b:9aa1166bb3] is right for you, there's no denying it.

I think that Tara's line "You can't just go for coffee..." was probably directed at herself as well as Willow. And even in the sight of the love of her life, Tara's trying to justify the painfully slow process because she knows that's what she [b:9aa1166bb3] should[/b:9aa1166bb3] do. But how many times, in the face of being in love with someone, have any of us done what we should do? I know I haven't. Because loving someone totally is hard; it requires a lot of trust, even when that trust has already been broken once. But the feeling you get in return is the best in the world. And Amber expressed that perfectly during the kiss. Pain, sorrow, elation, need...everything.

Oh god, I've rambled. Sorry.

[Rally]

Ruth, you're not rambling, I think you summed things up perfectly. It took just as much strength for Tara to come back to Willow, as it did to leave her in the first place.

[tommo]

Is that what I said? Wow. Yes, that's what I said. Uh, meant, I mean. Um, dammit.

You summed it up in a sentence Rally. Thank you love.

[Rally]

It's a thing.

[TrueXena]

definitely a thing.

[tommo]

One of the best lines for me was Anya, telling Xander that he's going to keep on making stupid jokes so that nobody will notice he's just a scared little boy. So true. And I say that without malice. Although in this episode, he pissed me off mightily. Double standards, anyone?

[revisionJohanna]

The phrase Tara uses in the Bedroom Scene is from a poem by Yeats, entitled "The Second Coming." Yeats believed that the world as he knew it was coming to an end, and that the "Christian era" was going to be over-run by EvilGodlessNazis.

Note that the theme of the poem (and Tara's speech) is that things can't "go back to the way they were"; the opposite of Xander's wish. And that, of course, is the meaning of "Entropy".

(And for those who count;
Tara's beat pattern is the
same as the poem.) (((Meta haiku! Go me!)))

*

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
[b:04614679e0]Things fall apart[/b:04614679e0]; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand;
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries
of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

*

Thought you'd like to know. Also worth looking into is the famous novel by Chinua Achebe entitled "Things fall apart".

[tommo]

Thanks Johanna. This is actually really interesting, because I was thinking about this speech of Tara's and how important it is in the greater scheme of the season arc itself. Change, static, then change, then a backwards step. And always the knowledge that mistakes made can't be taken away. I think that was Willow's greatest fear; making mistakes. And yet, this episode shows just how far she, and the relationship, has come.

[Princess Willow]

I didn't get to see this ep until last night and I've just finished reading all the reactions in this thread. I was slightly spoiled for this ep...I knew about the kiss but I didn't know how amazing it would be.

I think it sucks that the kiss was cut but I am not surprised. We have come so far from the days of holding hands and shy glances and [i:97308b5305] *getting down on her knees*[/i:97308b5305] Thank God for UPN!!! We NEVER would have gotten as much as we did on WB. I'm not supporting their decision but I am glad they are as open to the W/T relationship as they are. That being said, I look forward to checking out the full length version of THE KISS in the multimedia thread when I'm done here.

Xander's wish is an interesting twist which could definitely be taken advantage of in the future. Willow's dress on the door was definitely there for a reason. It was nice to see Buffy and Dawn interacting as normal sisters would. Xander and Anya have a long way to go before they heal. I agree with the reviewer who said that the W/T reconciliation had been earned. Willow did everything she had to in order to regain Tara's trust. Tara knew that although it hurt, the only way for Willow to work things out was for her to leave. Xander ran away because he was scared. He came back and expected a simple...I'm sorry and I love you I want to make everything ok again... to work and then was surprised when it didn't. I'm very glad ME didn't cop out, X/A don't deserve the reconciliation, they haven't worked for it yet.

The W/T goodness was so much more than expected! I sat there with tears in my eyes as I watched the girls put bandages on their scars, pick themselves back up and mend their relationship. The last scene, as soon as I heard Tara's voice over, the tears started streaming down my face. I could feel the hope in Willow and Tara's inner war trying to decide if she should take the long road...the way she knows she SHOULD go or just give in to the intense love she has for Willow and go the way her heart is telling her she WANTS and NEEDS to go.

I am only slightly spoiled for next week and know nothing about eps 20-22. I am shaking with anticipation at what Joss & Co. will bring us next.

+ = Smoochies & Happiness!

[PandoraSpocks]

What JOHANNA had to say was very interesting, and to tell the truth, I didn't know what 'Entropy' meant. Makes senses, Thanks

KPMUSE I did notice Willow stick out her tounge once, but I didn't catch the second time.

Tara / Amber did that look she does, when she shifts her eyes to the side, that gets me everytime, then you catch her making a grin. She also did that head turn and smokey look she did in OMWF, right after she says "Unoffically", and Willows / Alyson's grin,

[the literary exterminator]

[quote:e31da90b8d][b:e31da90b8d][i:e31da90b8d]Quote:[/i:e31da90b8d][/b:e31da90b8d]

---

[i:e31da90b8d] [b:e31da90b8d] AutumnT[/b:e31da90b8d] wrote:[/i:e31da90b8d]
I wonder if there were two wildfeeds.

---

[/quote:e31da90b8d]Wait, now I'm confused. I didn't think US affiliates even used the wildfeed. I thought they got a straight network feed. If they used the wildfeed, how could they get the lucrative network advertising?

I thought the wildfeed was just for international airs that can't get the tapes in time. Like Canada. Like the UK, probably, starting this week. I had just assumed the network feed was where the cut originated. (Cut for reasons unbeknowst to me. Maybe the wildfeed version is too long?)

Anyway, I thought there was always two ``feeds'', but only one ``wildfeed'' that anyone can access. The other would have all those national ads.

I would appreciate if someone who knew more could clear this up.

[WiccanBex]

oh, i do love the smoochies!

smoochies are always good. i've waited too long for willow/tara smoochies.

i love when i get what i want.

xander's boring me at the moment... is he boring anyone else? because he just seems... boring.

i really liked the buffy/dawn interaction in this ep - it's about time buffy started spending a bit of time with her sister.

i'd say more... but i have no time! lol. so i'm gonna go now...