Marti on the Radio- NPR

[Unregistered(d)]

i read a thread on the C&S board that Marti talked about W/T on the radio today.
www.npr.org

Thursday on Talk of the Nation, gay-themed TV shows and gay characters are coming out across the TV schedule. And now there are plans for a cable network aimed at gays. Will a network finally signal acceptance at the end of the rainbow, or is it digital ghettoization? Join host Neal Conan and experts for that discussion.

The audio for this program will be available online after 6PM ET, 3PM PT.

I

[Willow]

Oooh! Thanks Rane for the heads up! Really looking forward to this interview!

kris

I

[Willow]

Yeah, thanks Rane, it is a good sign that gays and lesbians are finally being talked about in a good way. I look forward to seeing where this topic will go

[This message has been edited by WillowOnly (edited January 24, 2002).]

I

[Willow]

Drat! Drat! Drat! Missed it by [i:e96a4e05c6]this[/i:e96a4e05c6] much...

Thanks for the heads up! I'll see if I can get the online feed later. If technologically possible, clips will eventually make it onto the W/T Sounds Page.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

I

[Willow]

Audio available after 6PM EST

I

[Willow]

I heard the show while I was at work. In the fist half hour, Buffy was mentioned only once in a list of shows that had gay characters. But in the second half, when the show came back from a break, I thought I heard Willow's voice, so I turned up the radio. They were playing the argument scene from Tough Love. Then they introduced Marti. She only spoke for about 10 minutes. She talked about how they decided to have Willow come out and about network regulations for showing gay couples. For example, she said that the network would only allow two women to kiss once, but not twice.

They usually have a transcript and a RealPlayer file of the shows within a day or two at www.npr.org/programs/totn/ if anyone is interested.

I

[Willow]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spinner:
For example, she said that the network would only allow two women to kiss once, but not twice.

---

Well they didn't really follow that rule in "The Body" though I suppose they have since then. I guess the network thinks if you do it again you must have liked it. Sheesh.

I

[Willow]

If anyone is interested there is an online discussion of this topic at http://www.npr.org/yourturn/ Find Talk of the Nation and click on Gay Cable. I posted a reply to the discussion there.

I am so upset that I missed the on-air discussion. Would someone please bump this if/when a transcript is posted?

Thanks!

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"Lord what fools these mortals be."

I

[Willow]

The audio is currently being streamed at npr.com

*bump*

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"Everyone's getting spanked but me."

I

[Willow]

And alas, those wacky gnomes who usually have a mysterious way of putting RealMedia files on my hard drive are sadly unable to do so this time.

Fear not, though. I have a few other tricks up my sleeve. I may yet be able to get a sound clip or two.

Meanwhile, the transcript should be up later today.

I

[Willow]

The W/T stuff starts at around 33 minutes and it lasts for about 5 minutes.

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited January 24, 2002).]

I

[Willow]

On now *bump*

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"Everyone's getting spanked but me."

I

[Willow]

Rally, it was streaming for me, so I was able to listen to it anytime and move it right to the part I wanted to hear.

I

[Willow]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Warduke:
Rally, it was streaming for me, so I was able to listen to it anytime and move it right to the part I wanted to hear.

---

Listening to the entire has been somewhat interesting, but some very scary callers.

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"Everyone's getting spanked but me."

I

[Willow]

Just finished listening. I agree...some scary callers. If you haven't checked it out yet, the online discussion was also very interesting. There is a link in my post above.

I

[Willow]

If you just want the Buffy bits, I did the dirty work. A rough transcript (abbreviations by me and smart-alecky comments by me):

Clip of Tough Love argument, from Tara saying I trust you, I just dont know where Im going to fit in your life to Willows Youre the only woman Ive ever fallen in love with so how on earth could you every take me seriously.
TOTN: For those of you who dont follow the adventures of btvs, several seasons ago the super heroines bf Willow, played by AH developed an interest in witchcraft and in her partner in magic, Tara (pronounced Tar-ahee hee) How did you decide to have that character, Willow, a pre-existing character on the show, come out?
MARTI: You know, actually, it was never really the plan. We didnt start off saying that Willow would be a gay character on the show. It actually kind of grew out of the relationship between the two women. We started to feel like the relationship was going toward more than just friendship. And rather than fight it we just went with it. Also, we were trying to reflect a thing that we think is very real in college, especially for younger people. Which is that it is a time of experimentation. And if you have an open mind it may be a time when you try new things. I dont know that we knew that it was going to develop into such a large story line or that they would become sort of gay icons (laughs).
TOTN: At a time in network television , I guess UPN is network television (laughs), that you came up w/ this idea and everybody said, Oh boy that will be brutal to get that through, youll have to fight for it or did they say Oh, theyre going to love that?
MARTI: You know, it was probably someplace in between. The truth is actually that at the time that Willow started dating Tara we were on a different network, the WB. I wouldnt say anyone did somersaults. They werent overly excited. But they also werent overly resistant. I think one of the comments we had, Oh gosh, we already have so many gay people on our network. There were gay story lines on a bunch of different shows on the WB. That just shows you how times have changed.
woman expert: Obviously we need to credit something like Ellen for really breaking through this barrier of invisibility. It was a show that broke down that barrier and allowed for the Will and Graces, Buffy and Dawsons Creek and all the plethora that comes after.
TOTN: So Marti you were never confronted w/ the first lesbian kiss on TV?
MARTI: We werent confronted w/ the first lesbian kiss. But we did have to deal w/ some network resistance to showing them kissing.
TOTN: Hmm.
MARTI Which seemed like such a strange kind of double standard. I mean, I dont know if you guys have commented on this, but there has been a story around Hollywood about a studio note that was, basically, you can show girls kissing once but you cant show them kissing twice. Because the second time means that they liked it. (everyone laughs) There are all these sort of strange rules that you get into, you can imply but you cant show. The rules are a lot less liberal than what you can show with a straight couple. Although, that does seem to be shifting and changing week by week, month by month.
woman expert: But slowly I would add. I mean, I think Marti makes an important point, that that double standard remains alive and well. I have to return to W&G here because that is one of the greatest examples of the double standard. Weve seen grace going at it. Having romantic and sexual interest and will can barely get a date the poor guy. And hes a good looking guy. It shouldnt happen. So this sexual double standard does really keep a lid on the kinds of expressiveness that can be shown in popular culture.
MARTI: Right. And the other thing is, you are also in a bind as producers. Because if you show a kiss or you show something that is really erotic, you kind of get accused of being really salacious. One of the things we didnt want to do was have kind of the stunt kiss during sweeps.
TOTN: Doesnt anyone remember Al and Tipper Gore? (laughter, yadda yadda)

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Well, now that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head.

I

[Willow]

Pretty interesting. I wish Marti had been on a little longer. One thing she mentioned, and that I do appreciate was their desire as producers not to do the big sweeps "stunt kiss" sort of thing.

I remember when Party of 5 a show I did not watch was hyping up their lesbian storyline for this little arc where one of the girls did a little experimenting. I can't tell you how annoying I found that. Plus I had to sit through all that whiney man pain just to see it. It's such a blessing to have a show that lets the relationship flow naturally.

What I also find amusing, and we've heard it from the producers before was that they never intended for Tara to be more than a friend to Willow. How funny that two actresses apparently inadvertantly heating up the screen together gave us what has been the most realistically portrayed lesbian relationship on TV. I guess we owe a lot of thanks to Aly and Amber for their excess chemistry.

It still is disheartening though that this is considered pushing the boundaries...

Autumn

[This message has been edited by AutumnT (edited January 24, 2002).]

I

[Willow]

And yet at the same time, it's somewhat heartening that those boundaries are being pushed.

-Sass

I

[Willow]

I have to say, I got rather annoyed with the woman who kept talking over Marti, especially when she missed the whole point of Marti's second comment about trying to walk the line of not being exploitative.

-len

I

[Willow]

Amber said--I think in an interview posted on WB's web site last year--that it wasn't until filming her third episode that Joss told her he was thinking that Willow and Tara would develop a lesbian relationship. I wonder if that's because they saw the chemistry between them, or more likely that they didn't want to commit to the idea of a romantic relationship (which they probably had back when writing Hush and introducing Tara) until they saw how Aly and Amber were together on screen and when they came off with great chemistry they knew the storyline would work with them.

She didn't say whether she was playing Tara to have a crush on Willow from the beginning (nor whether that was her choice, obvious from the writing, or a specific direction she was given), but it certainly looked like she did.

I

[Willow]

Oh, why invite marti if she's only going to be on for 5 minutes. Oh well, I can't seem to play that right, I'll try that later so thanks a bunch for the transcript.

I

[Willow]

wow that really was short. i listen to npr all day driving around in my car at work and i missed that interview. the internet is great! thanks for posting the transcript.

I

[Willow]

Okay, I've done some reverse-patching on my computer, basically turning around the setup that lets me create my sound clips so that the RealAudio stream will go to my tape deck. Once that's done, I can reset everything the way I normally have it and make sound clips of the important parts from the program off my tape.

Look for stuff on the W/T Sounds Page, either tonight or tomorrow night, depending on how long this takes me.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

I

[xita]

GiftofAmber
Doll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 65
Registered: Dec 2001 posted January 25, 2002 00:46
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Imperfectly--Thanks for posting the transcript!!
Wow, see, that's why I love Willow and Tara and BTVS so much, because they didn't do the exploitive method of showing a lesbian relationship. If they had gone that route, I probably would have gotten disgusted and turned off the tv.

IP: Logged

BBOvenGuy
Strong like an Amazon


Posts: 3171
Registered: Sep 2000 posted January 25, 2002 01:47
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Sound clips are up!!!
www.geocities.com/bboveng...ounds.html

I made four of them. Enjoy!


xita
Ms. Moderator
Fantastico


Posts: 6625
Registered: Sep 2000 posted January 25, 2002 02:30
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Hey thanks Bob! You know, it's interesting how that story has really changed now that Buffy is on UPN. Before they used to say that they didn't want to be too graphic, that they would push the envelope slowly but now it sounds like the restrictions made things the way they were. It also sounds like nowadays they write stuff and it usually get through the network.
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BBOvenGuy
Strong like an Amazon


Posts: 3171
Registered: Sep 2000 posted January 25, 2002 02:42
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I liked a lot of things about this interview. Most of all, though, I think I liked the underlying assumption that W/T is an ongoing story, even though anyone who watches the show would know that Willow and Tara are currently apart.
The segment started with Willow's "I'm not going back to boys town" speech, continued with Marti referring tongue-in-cheek to the girls as "gay icons," and made no mention at all of the fact that the girls aren't together at the moment. The current separation is just part of the story. Not the end. Just one chapter. Which is what Marti has said elsewhere, too. I doubt she'd be saying things like that in so many different places if she didn't mean it.

Also, in light of what Marti described as the "you can't show the girls kissing a second time" rule, I'm even more impressed with their decision not to show a kiss until "The Body," because that was very obviously not the first time they had ever kissed. No wonder the WB objected to it.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

IP: Logged

xita
Ms. Moderator
Fantastico


Posts: 6625
Registered: Sep 2000 posted January 25, 2002 02:59
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I see exactly what you are saying, making it their first kiss be their first kiss on screen played into their hands, Joss flipped that whole concept on them. Go joss!
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Dr.G
Lesbian Gay Type Lover


Posts: 4013
Registered: Jan 2001 posted January 25, 2002 03:07
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quote:
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Originally posted by Cipher:
I wonder if that's because they saw the chemistry between them, or more likely that they didn't want to commit to the idea of a romantic relationship (which they probably had back when writing Hush and introducing Tara) until they saw how Aly and Amber were together on screen and when they came off with great chemistry they knew the storyline would work with them.

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Less likely I'd say Cipher. Aly, Amber, Joss and now Marti, and probably other people as well have always maintained they did not bring Tara on the show as Willow's possible romantic interest, that they did not write Hush with that in mind. Why doubt their word? It was as you note the chemistry that did it, and aren't we lucky it worked out this way.
It is not forced, it developed naturally, just as it might in 'real life' so to speak.

Imperfectly and Bob, thank you very muches.
Oh and the fact that there are different 'rules' for same sex relationsips is offensive, but then again, that is not news. *sigh* And then there is the assumption/accusation looming over them that if they were to show W/T making out it would be called exploitative. Hmmph. They (the writers, actors) have done so very wonderfully well by W/T considering all these fun filled rules they have to contend with.


[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited January 25, 2002).]

IP: Logged

WiccanBex
Gay Now!


Posts: 1421
Registered: Jun 2001 posted January 25, 2002 04:27
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quote:
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Originally posted by AutumnT:
I guess the network thinks if you do it again you must have liked it. Sheesh.
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LMAO! heehee...

i'm gonna look around on the net to see if i can find this, i wanna hear what she has to say

thanks for letting us know


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