Marti interview from 'Dreamwatch', March '02 (spoilery W/T s

[SJ]

Thanks for posting that. I'm still hoping for a Willow&Tara reunion by episode 22 if not a few episodes before that.

[tyche]

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One other comment to add..... B/S progress and DEVOLVE??

I guess therein lies the darkness....

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Yeah, I thought that was odd when I was typing it, so I double-checked .. and it does say 'devolve' in the magazine. Of course, it could be that she said 'evolve' and 'Dreamwatch' transcribed it incorrectly, so chalk it up as a big 'don't know.'

[This message has been edited by tyche (edited January 31, 2002).]quote:

[wiseman]

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Originally posted by Warduke:
april, great minds think alike

And Tara was not in the last two episodes, so she would miss 4 more episodes but remember, she could easily be in more that 16, like she was last year

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** I read somewhere that Amber's contracted for 18 episodes this season so won't be in 2 more episodes this season. Which is better than her not being in 4. But not as good as her being in all of them.quote:

[EricAlan69]

Very simply, it makes sense for Marti to say that Xander and Anya have a better chance for happiness right now: X/A are actually STILL TOGETHER at the moment, while W/T are currently NOT together.

Deep breath, everyone! It will just take a little time here, but in the end all will be okay.

love,

e.

[This message has been edited by EricAlan69 (edited January 31, 2002).]

[Kalita]

quote:

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Originally posted by tyche:
it does say 'devolve' in the magazine. Of course, it could be that she said 'evolve' and 'Dreamwatch' transcribed it incorrectly, so chalk it up as a big 'don't know.'

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I accepted the word 'devolve' as soon as I saw it. It makes sense - look at Buffy's expression in the alley sex scene in DMP. Is theis relationship getting more loving and romantic? I don't think so.quote:

[Pixie]

I just want to add - Poor Spike! He does sincerely love Buffy. I can see him going off the deep end if/when she does end their relationship - setting up a medium/big bad for next season?

[jodey]

you know, i don't see why they can't write buffy and spike together. forget about all that crap about him being "evil" and not the best choice for her. how many people do all of you know that chose someone who wasn't everyone else's ideal for that person? (did that make sense?) you know your friend had a boyfriend you thought was a bad person but she ended up marrying him and is living happily ever after? i think the writers are AFRAID to make buffy and spike work. they're afraid that a happy yet controversial couple on their show would be too much of a writing challenge for them or that the viewers would get too bored watching buffy and spike be happy together. ah! i feel better now that i've vented.

[Hugin]

Well, except for some folks, being "not evil" is not an insignificant requirement for a significant other. Spike may genuinely love Buffy, but he's also genuinely tried to kill her.

If I, theoretically, were a friend of Buffy's, I might find that hard to overlook. Especially since as a friend of Buffy's, it's likely Spike would have by now tried to kill me on several occasions as well. Yes, Spike has been helpful on occasion, but, significant others who are demonstrably bad for thier partners in the real world (physically or emotionally abusive, stalkers, etc) are, one would assume, sometimes nice and useful to be around as well.

You see, my mother dealt with domestic abuse cases for years. Trying to balance "He works hard to support the family", "He has a great sense of humor" "He loves me", "He loves the kids", "The sex is passionate." vs. "He loses his temper and beats the crap out of me." doesn't really work, the former, positive though they may be, don't actually much mitigate the latter.

Yes, Buffy is a superhuman person, physically she isn't the same as a battered wife/girlfriend. But I'm not entirely sure her psyche is as indestructable as her body. And while Buffy's Slayer abilities scale her up and out of the classic profile of an abused partner, the scale of Spike's transgressions scale up with her, we move beyond "He loses his temper and hits me" to "He's killed hundreds of people, possibly thousands, he's plotted with malice aforethought to kill me and my friends on multiple occasions and as far as I can tell, he'd very much like to have the freedom to be evil again. Oh, and he sincerely loves me. And is willing to be quite violent to demonstrate that."

Now, setting aside the fact that as a character Spike is funny and sexy and cool, I simply cannot do the above mentioned math in my head and say that Buffy/Spike is "Okay". Your mileage may vary, but I don't think it's just the writers wanting to avoid "controversy."

-len

[ShaggyKat]

i don't know since the chip buffy has been wailing on him. doesn't that make her the abuser?

[Hugin]

*shrug* If you like. The central point remains, I think the issues that make Buffy/Spike problematic are more significant than the writers wishing to avoid controversy.

Meanwhile, I've gone and broken one of our own moderatory rules and will be punished.

Seriously, the B/S debates have been done to death, and we've been trying to keep them off the board. If folks want to continue, feel free to email me (or whoever else) privately. But in this thread, let's agree to disagree and drop it.

-len

[Kendahl897]

This may be the wrong thread, but here goes. Willow won't be the big bad this season for two reason. First, to be the big bad, you have to be bad, ie.. evil, heartless, etc. Willow is neither. She's a good person who took a wrong step. But she's trying to atone for those wrongs and get back to the person she was before. Look at the last 2 episodes. She saved Buffy's life twice without using any magic. The second reason is of course, Tara. Willow loves Tara and Tara loves Willow, desperately. But Willow has to earn her trust back. I think Bob may be right on track when he suggests that soon there may be an episode where Willow has to physically demonstrate her love for Tara is stonger than her desire for magic. To give her a second or even third chance, and have her blow it, the audience and scoobies would lose all sympathy and Willow is too much a core character to have that happen.....Keep the faith everyone, stop panicking, and remember what Joss said " her relationship with Tara will continue."

[BBOvenGuy]

This interview was particularly enlightening when Marti goes into the stuff about accepting responsibility versus evading responsibility.

In "Doublemeat Palace" Willow complains at least once about how everything is "so damn slow" without magic. When she was still in denial, she was using magic recklessly for two reasons - #1 because it made things fast and easy, and #2 because it freed her from herself. Now she's learning that in order to grow up, she has to face herself and the reality around her. Having her become the Big Bad would be backsliding. The natural course of the story arc (if you believe in the classics, as Joss does) is to have her grow up and learn her lesson.

Besides, the show doesn't need Willow in the position of someone who evades responsibility. That's what Amy and the nerds are for.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

"You haven’t seen the last of Tara and Willow, that’s for sure." - Marti Noxon, March 2002 edition of Dreamwatch

[Kendahl897]

DITTO. Besides Willow and Tara couldn't be regular Scoobies together without being in a relationship. Too much love and sexual tension. If you look at the history of the Scoobies, ie..Xander and Cordelia, Willow and Oz, when the relationship ended they left the Scooby gang...Tara's not going anywhere....Writers have already said she's going to be a big influence on the gang...

[judy]

Everyone's all happy and positive after the Dreamwatch Marti interview and I still feel pouty and gloomy. *SIGH*

Will have to keep re-reading the positive posts to make the cup half full and not empty...

[BBOvenGuy]

Where exactly is the half-empty, Judy? Your gloom is lost on me, I'm afraid...

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

"You haven’t seen the last of Tara and Willow, that’s for sure." - Marti Noxon, March 2002 edition of Dreamwatch

[judy]

Ah. Bob, saying those words I hear so often... Your gloom is lost on me; what are you all upset for... etc.

I tend to be a very negative person. I'm realising this more and more of late. When I first read Marti's interview I was upset. I hated that she said Anya and Xander had the best chance for happiness. I took her words that we haven't seen the last of W and T as meaning that they would do a whole big break up onscreen. I got nervous when she emphasized that Amber was contracted for 16 eps (because I did the math and realized like someone else mentioned in the thread that it would possibly mean no Tara in the final three eps). Now, there's definitely ways the above can be framed in a positive light but somehow I got nervous. I can't seem to shake my negativity and don't really wish to spread it here on the board. I think I am just worn out from all the months of Tara is gonna die talk!

[xita]

Judy they already had a big break up.. on screen. And the 16 eps. . . i can deal with it because I don't think Tara has a part in fighting her own "I refuse to grow up" demon.

[judy]

I know, xita. I am not claiming to be rational here. Just freaked out. My fears have no basis in reality. I became convinced that Marti's moms had broken up and she decided to work her feelings out through having W and T break up over and over again onscreen. OK, I didn't go that far... but I did have a fear that there would be a more angsty and FINAL break up onscreen and then Tara would be gone for the last few eps. But I see what you're saying about how Tara doesn't fit in with the major internal big bad of this season... She has already done that "becoming an adult" type work in some crucial ways when she broke things off with Willow to protect and honor herself.

[BBOvenGuy]

Sounds like I need a few new mantras...

Judy, it's going to be okay. Trust me. As Xita said, Willow and Tara have already had the big breakup. It was stretched out over three different scenes, actually - once in "Once More, With Feeling," in Tara's song, then at the beginning of "Tabula Rasa" before the forget spell, and then at the end of "Tabula Rasa." And then, just for kicks they had Tara walk out on Willow again at the beginning of "Wrecked."

One of my lesser-known mantras (but one I've used in several threads) is "Joss is a classicist, not a post-modernist." He's taken Willow and Tara to the depths - now the rules of classical storytelling demand he bring them back, stronger and wiser for having gone through their pain. It will happen. Trust me.

Edited to add something that just occurred to me - At the time of this interview, the scripts had only been written up through Episode 11 or 12. There was still close to half the season that was unwritten. Marti may have said 16 episodes for Amber because that was true as far as she knew at that time. Things could still change between the time of the interview and the time the season finale wraps.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

"You haven’t seen the last of Tara and Willow, that’s for sure." - Marti Noxon, March 2002 edition of Dreamwatch

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited February 01, 2002).]

[Sheila]

Going to dreamland for a minute here...

I have my doubts about seeing naked Willow and Tara in hotter sexy scenes in primetime network, unfortunately. I'm sure we can have much spicier scenes between them, but the best parts would probably be cut before it aired...

*BUT*

... why not dream with an unrated season DVD set? With all the, uh, "goodies"?

[mucifer]

yeah Sheila , we all need that dvd and could they please add to the dvd the 100 kisses that aly and amber had to practice for "the body" ?

[Glory-p3-mrs]

ok, yeah willow/tara goodness and worries about how many eppisodes tara is going to be in - but what about eliza? bring her back damn it!
sorry, i'm Ok now, back to the discussion of w/t on this willow & tara board

(still i await the return of faith)

[judy]

Thanks, Bob. I especially like your reminder that the interview took place around the time of Ep 12 shooting... a lot can change between then and now. Plus I think the Xita's point about Tara not really having an internal don't wanna grow up demon to wrestle with like the other Scoobies is well taken...

[Willowlicious]

One other thought just came to me about Marti hammering Amber's 16 episode contract. People have been worrying that she sounds rather hardline about it ONLY being 16 and that could be bad news. Well, if you consider the rampant BSD rumors that were going on at that time (and STILL won't completely die) that insisted Tara wouldn't be with us after the sweeps, maybe Marti was trying to refute that rumor by pointing to Amber's contract. If Tara was written out in the sweeps, Amber would be a few eppies shy of her contract. By Marti repeatedly insisting that Amber is going to be in 16 episodes, she is indirectly shooting down the rumors. So maybe her intent wasn't to stress that Amber is ONLY going to be in 16 eps, but that Amber is DEFINITELY going to be in 16 eps. Or more. Just pointing out that we could have been missing an important, positive emphasis on her part.

[Dazey]

quote:

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Originally posted by Willowlicious:
I was just wondering when Amber's contract status had been made public in the past

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We got the first official word of Amber's continued recurring status for S6 very shortly after the S5 finale, in an interview with Joss. I remember it quite distinctly because I felt like I'd been hit in the stomach by a telephone pole. I would imagine that the actual negotiating was done earlier but that they wanted to keep it under wraps so as to heighten suspense about what would happen to Tara. Bastards. All-around bastards.

I expect the same thing will happen this season. And I appreciate optimism about Amber becoming a regular, but I'm not going to get my hopes up this time. I do think the notion that Tara needn't be around so much for the remainder of this season because she isn't a part of the "oh grow up" theme makes sense...although I wish it didn't. I just want my Tara, dammit.quote:

[Willowlicious]

Thanks for the info, Dazey! I don't have my "hopes up," so to speak, but I am not devoid of hope either. I'm just trying to point out potential bright spots to keep the mood from getting too grim. I'm actually a pessimist by nature, so it's quite amazing that I can find bright spots at all!

[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited February 03, 2002).]

[Willow-4-Tara]

(F)

[eekiboo]

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Originally posted by mucifer:
yeah Sheila , we all need that dvd and could they please add to the dvd the 100 kisses that aly and amber had to practice for "the body" ?

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i think you meant to say 399 kissing practices? lol

as for 'naked w/t sex scene'... oh yes please! i think, UPN have no problems w/ same sex scenes. remember in Star Trek Deep Space Nine? Jadzia Dax and her former lover kissing as well as alternate Ezri Dax and alternate Kira? those were scenes to cherish. the move to UPN gave Buffy a notch to the older viewing audience (rather than the teeny boppers of WB). well, coz Buffy has more adult responsibilities now. i know Queer As Folk has gone way beyond 'under the cover' scenes but if W/T does one, will it be the first on primetime tv? that'll be the day! peace

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Willow and Tara
Willow and Tara's Roomquote: