General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

[girlwiththebraids]

okay...i guess maybe i'm just being Miss Psycho Pep Squad at this point...but...as I catch up on this thread...while I understand the anger directed at ME, and particularly Marti (grr)...the fact is we DON'T know what's coming...we know that they're killing our Tara...and that makes me know I'm going to weep buckets and feel like my heart is getting ripped out, like I did when I saw "The Body" and "Becoming" and "The Gift" and even "Innocence" and "Wild at Heart" (because I once loved both Angel and Oz like crazy)...but I'm holding to the hope that a team that has twisted and turned and surprised me every season with an ending I would never have expected, is going to come through again...

And as for the darkness of this season...call me crazy, but when I was 20/21 (all of two years ago)...I was kind of dark and moody and in pain...and if you take that and magnify it into a larger than life world where that pain is also fed by blood, sex, death and magicks...you get season six...it doesn't seem that far off...and frankly, it may be dark, but it's been the "lighter" episodes that I've thought were the less quality ones...

just my Psycho Pep Squad cheer of the day

braids

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"Is she your sister?"
"She's my everything..."

"Would that mean we have to snuggle?"

"There's nothing we can't face...except for bunnies."

"Oh! Oh, it's not a, a gay thing, you know, I mean, well...she's gay, but, but we don't ... gay. Not that there's anything..."

[This message has been edited by girlwiththebraids (edited March 27, 2002).]

[Ari]

quote:

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Originally posted by Morphine:
Make me laugh till I bleed, for one. But mostly, it's entertaining during the spoiler drought. But I agree, it's like Amy/Tara. It's not anything but fanfic...

---

Well, depending on how you define the idea of B/S/X, that's not exactly true.

I don't think it's any coincidence that just as soon as Anya was out of the picture, however briefly, Xander suddenly woke up and smelled the Spuffy.

Now that doesn't necessarily define how or where it's going to go. But depending on how the season ends I could make a pretty fair case for Anya being an Angel-esque kind of relationship for Xander. Genuine love that was doomed by the nature and history of the demonic half of the pair.

And that certainly could set the stage for B/X, if Joss wants to go that way.

Edited to add (just for the Hell of it):
Angel(us) vs Anya(nka) -

Embodiment of an adolescent ideal - mysterious, romantic older guy/girl who thinks it's ridiculous to have interconnecting body parts and not be connecting

In a relationship that is taken to a major turning point - loss of virginity/marriage

Where an demonic action from the past interferes, because of a former victim believes they don't deserve happiness - Angelus' gypsy curse/a man Anyanka had cursed posing as FutureXander to stop the wedding

Inadvertently causes a reversion to previous demonic nature - Angel losing his soul/Anya accepting D'Hoffryn's offer to get back to what she does best

And that nature causes something to be set in motion which can only be stopped by sacrificing his/her life - which makes the rumored wish plot a sort of uberBecoming

That's honestly another reason why I find the wish idea so believable. Joss loves patterns.

I'm not espousing any ships here, just calling it like I see it.

[This message has been edited by Ari (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:

[invisigoth]

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
That or the world has finally gone insane...

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That's a distinct possibility.

quote:

[JayDK]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
What exactly would Willow do secretly behind their backs? There's no motivation for it at all. If Willow had a reason to be sneaking around plotting evil, I might be inclined to think it had potential - but there's absolutely nothing the Willow I know would want that would lead her to do that. If it's vengeance against Buffy over some kind of grievance, Willow's rage would be out there for the world to see. That's the kind of person she is.

---

It doesn't seem too hard to fathom why Willow might start pursuing her goals in secret. At the end of season 6, Big Black Bad Willow confronts Buffy and one way or another, is soundly defeated. A frontal attack against Buffy doesn't work, especially as quickly as BBB Willow most likely burns out. So Willow pretends to reform, while actually going after whatever she wants to go after in secret. As for what Willow's goal is...Tara's resurrection? Revenge against Buffy? Simply more power and more control so Willow can never be hurt again as she is by Tara's death? I don't know, really. But I do think the Willow we'll see at the end of the season will be ruled by her rage, pain and fear following Tara's death. All bets are off with Willow for a while, I think (although again, I think when it comes down to it Willow will ultimately be redeemed).

quote:

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Ummmm... let's put a little emphasis on the word apparent, shall we? There's been no evidence to suggest that next season will be linked to this season any more than any other two consecutive seasons have been.

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Well, Marti has commented that season 6 will end in a "sort-of cliffhanger." The plot most likely to need further wrap-up and exploration, IMO, is Willow's fall to the dark side. Three episodes seems like a very brief time to begin and end this storyline, given the years-long build-up of the arc and Willow's importance as a character. And there's the fact that ME went into season 6 knowing they had two definite season of story to play out on UPN -- and the fact that there just doesn't seem to be enough time to wrap up Willow, Spike and the chip, Xander and Anya going demony again, etc. It *feels* like a two-season arc to me. That's exactly no proof, of course, but that's my sense of it at this time. Guess we'll see soon enough.quote:quote:

[Willow-n-Tara_1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
[
They rush through a makeup scene that has been building for half a season.
So they can kill the innocent girl.

[/B]

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I'll agree... ME is putting alot of faith in their W/T shippers actually in all their fans. I know you need the big finale ... ratings and all... but we've been through enough this season. First the break up, then tuging us along with the make up and then its Wham Bamm dead now ...

I'm with the reversal theory and some of the crazy ones that go around in my head at times. If she doesn't come back they are going to lose alot of viewers because of this rollercoaster ride they put us on... I finally joined the list of 'I'm gone if Tara doesn't come back next season' after letting this stew for the last month and realizing that we have another 7 or 8 weeks before we see how this plays out.

Just one final thing to vent/say...WHEN Tara does come back it better be so we know it before we go into the summer and Tara and Willow better have smooth sailing next season Joss owes US and them big time

Edited for all the spelling mistakes you make at 0330 in the morning...off to work

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From Out Aug01::: Joss on the Amber/Aly 'Kiss'
"Can we have one that's less like you're going to sleep together in about five minutes"

[This message has been edited by Willow-n-Tara_1 (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:

[Still Waters Run Deep]

We've asked people to please drop the Amy stuff.

-len

[This message has been edited by Hugin (edited March 27, 2002).]

Sorry Len, it was posted before I reached that part of the thread

[This message has been edited by Still Waters Run Deep (edited March 27, 2002).]

[the literary exterminator]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
That's interesting. I didn't know July was a sweeps month, too. I thought the networks pretty much wrote off the summer as a time when no one was watching.

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For the record, July isn't sweeps in Hawaii this year, and it wasn't last year. I don't know if it has been in other years or not. July is sweeps for the rest of the country, though. And, no, I have no idea why this is.quote:

[LizSK2]

Though I am almost always a lurker I have to get a few things off my chest - bear with me :] I feel that the writers are taking Willow to the point of no return with the consumed by magic story arc. What's the next season plan? To have Aly roaming around with black eyes and hair the entire season? I'm hoping not. Though the reset theory is extremely plausible and sensible and will resolve all that we want it to resolve I don't think it'll happen to the extent that everyone wants. For my money, Anya will play a huge part in any end of season resolution; possibly doing a 'good' wish to help bring Tara back and then getting in extreme trouble from D'Hoffryn for not being venguful enough. However, if we are all hoping for neat resolutions and a happy summer then dream on!! never gonna happen. Joss and Marti are going to make us all suffer until season 7 starts with the eventual fate of Tara and Willow [as characters and as a couple] totally unresolved at seasons end. Meanwhile, I'm addicted to the wildfeed with no end in sight and the break until April 23rd is killing me! Plus I live in London, UK so even when the eps restart in the US I still won't get to see them! Still, there's always downloading :]
OK rant over - many thanks to all the gorgeous kittens for giving me so much to read and have faith in. Hold hands and we will prevail.

Liz x

[This message has been edited by LizSK2 (edited March 27, 2002).]

[Cajjy]

Ok, time for some incoherent ramblings, and idle speculation. (Sorry in advance for spelling, punctuation)

I have a problem with this whole Tara dies scenario. Over the last 2 years, we have seen Tara grow into a young woman with incredible self-control and poise. One can clearly make an argument that Tara has been the most important Scooby of them all this year. She has been their rock, their shoulder to lean upon. Tara was the one person that Dawn could identify with. After the death of Joyce, Tara become the mother figurehead to Dawn…..much more so than Buffy. Who was the one person that Buffy felt she could go to with her worries over coming back wrong? Who did she tell about her “relationship” with Spike?

With that being said why spend so much time building up Tara’s character, only to have her killed? It makes no sense to me. I know a lot of you are saying that this is the only way that Willow can go all BlackMagic on us. I say that this isn’t the only way, it is only the EASIEST. In my opinion ME, Marti, or whom ever you want to hold responsible, are just being plain lazy.

They had the perfect chance to explore Willow’s use/abuse of black magic. They could have stretched her addiction story out for months. They had all the players in place. (i.e. Rack, Amy) What would have been better than seeing Willow being turned dark by these little gifts of Amy’s? We could see Willow slowly falling to the magic. Hell, you could even have a confrontation between BlackMagicWillow and the Scoobies. As for Willow’s redemption? Tara of course. That would have given the Tara/Willow relationship a whole new level.

OK OK, maybe not the best scenario, but it sure beats the senseless death of one the series most interesting characters.

They went and got me hoping for the one thing I never thought I would want to see. A reset.

Which brings me to another issue. Why would the Scoobies have to forget everything that happened because of a reset? We have already seen two wishes granted (The Wish and Older and Far Away).
Two wishes, and two different results when the wishes are broken. In The Wish Anya’s power is stripped from her, the wish is broken and everyone forgets. In Older and Far Away Halfrek breaks the wish she granted herself to escape the house, and everyone remembers.

I was just wondering…what if the reset does come down to Anya and her wish? How much control does a vengeance demon have over their wish once it is granted? Can they control who remembers and who don’t, if they end the wish themselves? Would it be possible for Anya to be standing over a dying Xander, amulet in hand, getting ready to smash it and sacrifice herself for the man she loves, but right before she does whispers “Remember me”? That way everyone would remember the choices they made, and have a chance to grow from them.

I know, just idle speculation. I just can’t help think that this series, which I dearly love, is headed for a fall.

Once again, here is hoping for a happy W/T season finale.

P.S. Sorry for bringing up the whole Amy thing again. I'm just trying to show that the whole death scenario could have been avoided

[Morphine]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ari:
Well, depending on how you define the idea of B/S/X, that's not exactly true.

I don't think it's any coincidence that just as soon as Anya was out of the picture, however briefly, Xander suddenly woke up and smelled the Spuffy.

---

See, that's the french in me not understanding half of what's going on here... By Love Triangle, I was under the impression of Guy-A loving Girl who loves Guy-B who himself loves Guy-A. And I got a neat little visual with that too...

But your theories on Anya/Angel parallels is quite interesting, but the depth of Xander's love for Anya could be argued. Although her storyline is Angelesque, Xander's reaction to her in the last 2 years has not been one of eternal love (blah, blah, blegh... ). But I'm thinking let's not go into that.

The problem with this, is that it closes the door for redemption by demons/former demons. Angel was brought back by The Powers That Be, would Anya be too? Or would this send the message that unless you're terribly important to the fate of the world, if you're anything but the perfect human, things don't bode too well for you.
Spike going to get dechipped, trying to "rape" Buffy? No hope there...
Willow going back to Dark Magicks, torturing and ultimately killing Warren? No hope there as well...

What I'd like to see is Anya sacrificing herself not for bad actions past, but for a good deed towards her friends and the world. That way, the door is not closed for future Willow redemption after the badness occurs, if ever the Scoobies keep their memory of events...

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Tara: No, see, 'cause your insect reflection represents your insignificance... in terms of the karmic cycle.
quote:

[Dr.G]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cajjy:
I know a lot of you are saying that this is the only way that Willow can go all BlackMagic on us. I say that this isn’t the only way, it is only the EASIEST. In my opinion ME, Marti, or whom ever you want to hold responsible, are just being plain lazy.

P.S. Sorry for bringing up the whole Amy thing again. I'm just trying to show that the whole death scenario could have been avoided

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Cajjy, I do not think a lot of us are saying that is the only way Willow can go Dark Magic on. Most people here do not want to see a Dark Magic Willow, and no dead Tara for any reason. In this scenario Tara's death seems a means to a very terrible end. I agree that Willow going on a dark magic bender and Tara's death scenario could and *should* be avoided for reasons that have been stated in previous threads. As it is, it *will* happen and all we have so far is hope it will be undone in the end. I agree with you that a reset through Anya undoing a wish does not mean forgetting as well.

As for Amy, that was about other speculation, your mentioning of her in this context is prefectly fine methinks.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:

[Popje]

See now, I'll borrow the melon baller from all of you if Amy-switches-places sex happens! Gag. Why people think a X/B/S triangle is more horrific than the suggested Amy scenario... As Wiccagirl says, it's not as if there's logic to the writing these days. But lest we forget that Buffy was founded on a triangle/well OK Square Buffy-Angel-Xander-Willow. Anyway the reason I thought of it, was I found Xander's break with Anya at the wedding just seemed forced...but if he was still in love with Buffy...it might make sense. And it would explain his consistent dislike of Spike. He had the same attitude towards Angel. It would also explain (if it happens) the possible death of Anya. I mean, S7, I don't think they'd introduce a new female character.Just my ramblings. PS no disrespect intended to anyone who had the Amy idea...we're all fishing for reasons for Tara to stay!

[All4W/T]

Just a question, In the Wedding episode, old Xander shows young Xander what his future is like..How accurate are those glimpses in the future?? Does that future exist only if he marries Anya?? The reason i ask is, I still am curious about Anyas line that he wouldnt be "the way he was" if he had saved Buffy..

Whatever he saw, whatever he did set up the upcoming events, Anya becoming a vengance demon again which is imperative to the story lines in the next few episodes..I wonder if Xander will ever tell anyone what was forshadowed and if that will come into play?? I dont think he has told anyone what he saw as of yet..

As for the Tara switch, maybe the real Tara doesnt "die" from the gunshot, we dont know how much time elapses between the making love scene, Tara being shot and Willow going after Warren...Willow goes to hospital with Tara..Leaves at some point..

Later Amy finds out about Tara being shot, somehow makes Willow think Tara has died,
knowing that would set Willow off..I think that would make Amy pretty happy, messing with Willow like that..Tara eventually comes out of her unconcious state and Dawn is there to tell her what is happening with Willow..Leading up to final confrontation between all and Tara is there for Willow..

[Dr.G]

Old Xander was not a future Xander, it was a demon who was once a man cursed by Anya, his interest was to hurt Anya, whatever glimpses of the future he showed were most likely all lies.

Oh and Tara dies, dead, totally. If there was any reason to think Tara is not dead, AngelX would tell us.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 27, 2002).]

[tommo]

Right Garfield. It was a demon's way of getting revenge on Anya. So he hit her at her weakest spot, which is Xander. Interesting how everyone's weak spot is the emotion they carry for their partner. That's the sure fire way to kill someone I guess, judging from what happens to Tara and, consequently, Willow.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[BigMac]

Lets look at one spoiler right now Spikes goes to Africa,what is the real reason it's the brithplace of the first Slayer and the first Evil.DAMM are we being set up for Season 7. Now back to Tara and Willow,Tara dies and Willow goes dark and what Sam said in EP15 then Willow dies sometime in EP21 or EP22 if Xander dies then the wish factor comes into play if not then the Troika tme device comes into play. The only one who can save willow is Tara. Now back why I base my reason about Spike the clues from season 4 and 5.

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Tara:Assume Crash Positions

[Willowlicious]

This is not a spoiler or even speculation. It is a fear I have that I can't post anyplace else as it deals with spoilers. I'm sorry.

Is anyone else filled with terror wondering what the sight of Willow finding Tara's body is going to do them? I've been trying not to think about it, but I watched "Wild At Heart" again the other day and I was suddenly filled with dread. Alyson truly makes me ache when she cries. She is one on a short list of actors who can break my heart with a glance. When Willow is crying at the end of that episode, it makes me misty EVERY time I see it. And that loss is NOTHING compared to what it coming.

Anyway, we know Willow ultimately goes into a black rage, but I'm sure there is going to be a quiet moment of confusion and then realization when she finds Tara's body and Alyson, being as good as she is, will probably conjure an expression of pure heartbreak from which I may never recover.

I admit, I'm overly sensitive because my mother is dying and death is a very real and constant presence in my life right now. I honestly don't think it will be good for me to watch that scene play out even if I know it is reversed. I don't need the added despair right now.

Okay, sorry, just had to let that out. Let's get back to our regularly scheduled spoiler thread.

Here, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler...here spoiler!

[xita]

It's fine to speculate on spoilers but let's not speculate when we start with wrong assumptions, Tara dies, fact.

Let's keep it moving.

[Lijdrec]

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
Right Garfield. It was a demon's way of getting revenge on Anya. So he hit her at her weakest spot, which is Xander. Interesting how everyone's weak spot is the emotion they carry for their partner. That's the sure fire way to kill someone I guess, judging from what happens to Tara and, consequently, Willow.

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Anya's weakness was not Xander, the person. Her weakness was her nearly total investiture of her newly re-found humanity in her relationship with Xander. - which is in part what you're saying, tommo - No woman, no person should put that much importance in a relationship. Unfortunately, Anya did not learn her lesson with her Troll and will now make the same mistake twice....

*edited because I can't see too straight right now* and to say:

She didn't even learn that lesson from all those wishes that she granted those 1000 years, she stuck in the mindset of the 980's! Hmmm, is that an alusion by JW to the 1980's and the idiotic Reagan years?

[This message has been edited by Lijdrec (edited March 27, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Lijdrec (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:

[AutumnT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Willowlicious:

Is anyone else filled with terror wondering what the sight of Willow finding Tara's body is going to do them?

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Yes. And it's times like this I wish Alyson were not such a damn fine actress.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.quote:

[breaking]

I think Tara has to come back. The connection between Tara and Willow has always been enforced about how they're always going to be together! No relationship on Buffy has ever been as strong and as real as theirs. It's kind of saying that this kind of happiest doesn't last and thats just depressing! Plus if Willow goes bad then she can never ever go back to the old Willow!
Well they were just my thoughts.
breaking

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where do we go from here?

[Willow-n-Tara_1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Willowlicious:
[
Is anyone else filled with terror wondering what the sight of Willow finding Tara's body is going to do them?

Anyway, we know Willow ultimately goes into a black rage, but I'm sure there is going to be a quiet moment of confusion and then realization when she finds Tara's body and Alyson, being as good as she is, will probably conjure an expression of pure heartbreak from which I may never recover.

[/B]

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'
I've had those same thoughts going through my head ... what will she do , I'm thinking she's going to hit rage mode immediatly and the grief will come after ... then again there won't be an after if you go with what Sam said..... I see a momentary acceptance after she tries to bring her back then its off to find Warren

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From Out Aug01::: Joss on the Amber/Aly 'Kiss'
"Can we have one that's less like you're going to sleep together in about five minutes"quote:

[fontaine]

quote:

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Originally posted by Willowlicious:
I admit, I'm overly sensitive because my mother is dying and death is a very real and constant presence in my life right now.

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I know what you mean, I lost my grandmother last year after she had a long battle with cancer and about 3 weeks later I watched "The Body", I was going OK until Anya's little speech and then I lost it. The thing is it helped because a lot of what she said was pretty much the kind of stuff that was going through my head at the time and for a long time after.

Anyway there is not a lot anyone can say to you just now except that the best thing you can do for your mother is be there for her, which I am sure you are.

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"It was inconclusive and I didn't stick around to find out. I might have magic'd my fist through a wall or something - Willow (Normal Again)quote:

[Willowlicious]

Thanks, Fontaine.

See, that's the thing, up until this point, BtVS was actually helping me deal with my grief. "The Body" helped me. It was painful to watch and I cried, but it was therapy. BtVS has always been dark, but there has always been hope and it always seemed to say that life is hard, but well worth living. That's why these spoilers are so awful. They provide no underlying theme of hope. They are just uniformly awful and soul-crushing. There has to be something more. There has to be.

As for the person who said Willow may just leap straight into rage...maybe. I haven't seen the script. What I'm afraid of is that Willow won't immediately know Tara's dead, like Buffy with her mom in "The Body", and there will be a tiny defining moment when she realizes it and her world evaporates (and the Willow we know essentially dies). Alyson is so skillful that I doubt she'll miss such a moment, however brief, before she flies into the activity of trying to revive her, then descends into rage. Plus, if ME went through all the trouble to create this horrific scenario, I'm sure they're going to play it for all the pain it's worth. They know they've got a world-class heartbreaker/crier on their hands in Alyson. They'll let her go to town.

I'm actually afraid of her talent for the first time. Sigh.

[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 27, 2002).]

[tommo]

Ack, don't. Watching old episodes really does remind me of what a fine actress Alyson is. I know she'll do this justice. But I just don't wanna see it, you know?

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[Willow-n-Tara_1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Willowlicious:

As for the person who said Willow may just leap straight into rage...maybe. I haven't seen the script. What I'm afraid of is that Willow won't immediately know Tara's dead, like Buffy with her mom in "The Body", and there will be a tiny defining moment when she realizes it and her world evaporates (and the Willow we know essentially dies). Alyson is so skillful that I doubt she'll miss such a moment, however brief, before she flies into the activity of trying to revive her, then descends into rage. Plus, if ME went through all the trouble to create this horrific scenario, I'm sure they're going to play it for all the pain it's worth. They know they've got a world-class heartbreaker/crier on their hands in Alyson. They'll let her go to town.

I'm actually afraid of her talent for the first time. Sigh.

[/B]

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That was me .... I understand your point ... I can see what you mean about that brief moment it will be scary to see it all unfold... I've already prepared my gf that I probably won't watch any of the eps till we have them all recorded on ultimate tv...I'll read wildfeed but once i watch ep19 then it will sink in and I want everything ready to watch back to back... even if we find out that there is a reversal i will still do this... it would be to hard to watch knowing I have to wait weeks for the final outcome

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From Out Aug01::: Joss on the Amber/Aly 'Kiss'
"Can we have one that's less like you're going to sleep together in about five minutes"quote:

[Ari]

quote:

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Originally posted by Morphine:
See, that's the french in me not understanding half of what's going on here... By Love Triangle, I was under the impression of Guy-A loving Girl who loves Guy-B who himself loves Guy-A. And I got a neat little visual with that too...

---

LOL

Okay, well now I have that visual too.

And I kinda wish I didn't.

quote:

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But your theories on Anya/Angel parallels is quite interesting, but the depth of Xander's love for Anya could be argued. Although her storyline is Angelesque, Xander's reaction to her in the last 2 years has not been one of eternal love (blah, blah, blegh... ). But I'm thinking let's not go into that.

---

Actually, I agree with that. I think in a way that's kind of how it plays opposite the Angel story so well.

Because Buffy and Angel had the eternal love, but got tripped up when it came to sex.

Xander and Anya started off with plenty of sex and worked their way around to love.

There is an interested comment about the differing nature of where men and women find fulfillment within relationships in all that, too. Sex vs Commitment.

But anyway, the final parallel could actually be with IWRY. Because that was where Angel and Buffy finally got to have all the sex they wanted, but it ended with Angel choosing his path and redemption and Buffy herself not able to remember the time when they were finally able to have it all.

So then it would follow that Xander and Anya would finally get their chance at realizing/expressing a truly deep, eternal kind of love for each other. And then Anya choosing redemption and Xander not having the chance to remember when they finally had it all.

Ari

I wish I could spell *sigh*

[This message has been edited by Ari (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:quote:

[ready4scully]

Great posts, guys! I remember reading somewhere that Joss likes foreshadowing and I tend to agree with that assessment. Through some cosmic coincidence or fate, I have been watching episodes where certain lines people say or actions all lead back to this season, especially Willow and Tara. "Restless" was a big one for foreshadowing. Not just for the fifth season, but for other reasons as well. You have Xander and Anya "arguing" about him not wanting her to become a demon or something like that, in Giles' dream Xander has to be there for Anya's "big night."

Tara is important because she is the "voice" in Willow's dream and especially Buffy's. Her comment "you think you know--what you are, what's to come. You haven't even begun." It came to my attention that this message was not only for Buffy, but quite possibly for Tara herself. And for all the other characters.

Then I was watching "The Yoko Factor" last night, and two exchanges of dialogue stuck out at me. One had to do with Giles as he was singing and Spike walks in.

They lyrics are:

If I leave here tomorrow/would you still remember me/well I must be travelling on my way now/There's too many places I got to see/And if I stay here with you, girl/Things just couldn't be the same/Cause I'm as free as a bird now...

Just a little foreshadowing I thought into Giles' future leaving.

Then there was an exchange between Tara and Willow, that I might be reading too much into, but I thought I'd post it here cause it made me think. They are in Tara's room and Willow is playing with Miss Kitty.

Willow: I keep thinking, okay, that's the cutest thing ever. And then she does something cuter, and completely *resets* the whole scale.

Tara: Did you see her yawn earlier?

Willow: Yes. *I thought I was gonna die.*

There. That's it for now. Just thought it was food for thought.

Justin

[Popje]

I still think the chain of the events in the last eps will somehow tie to Bargaining and Buffy’s resurrection. The vengeance or badness coming down will be visited on those that resurrected Buffy, those with “blood” on them. Tara, Anya, Xander and Willow. We’ve seen both couples:

- break up
- their efforts to get back together will be thwarted.
- Distanced from Buffy

General Death and mayhem are about to ensue. Although Willow was the primary force behind the spell, she involved the others as participants. So Tara is the first to die. Is she the only one? I don’t think so. Spoilers point to Willow going on a major rampage and then, possibly, burning out. Actions of Anyanka against Xander are unknown, but no doubt won’t be resulting in goodness.

Which leads me to question - Did the resurrection spell they did piss off the First Evil or First Slayer/Source? I think so. If we consider that the First Evil and Slayer source are like Yin and Yang, almost like one entity, of omnipotent primal force, then if a bargain was made with the Scoobs for Buffy’s return there would be a price (and possibly an agenda).

Remember what happened the first time Willow, Giles and Xander accessed these powers in S4? The first Slayer pursued them in dreams – until she “killed them” in Restless. Buffy had to save them. So if our couples end up dead or dying, because of a dark “bargain” for bringing her back, then it would have to be Buffy that finds a way to bring them back, so she won’t be walking alone.

[Warduke]

Willowlicious, last night when I went to bed, I thought of just that, for the first time since I heard the news, I thought of what that scene would be like, Willow finding Tara, the looks and emotions that we’ll see, will just be heartbreaking. And I also thought of the scene where Tara is shot/dies, do we actually see it? Or will we just see Willow finding the body? If we do get to see it, does she die right away? Or do we get to see the added bonus of watching our beloved Tara die slowly?

When these thoughts started to go through my mind, I felt sick, and I truly understood for the first time why so many people said they wouldn’t/couldn’t watch this, even if everything is ok at the end of the season. I thought I could watch it but then I started to think of what I would say in my Monday night report? How could I describe Tara dying? Or Willow finding the body? How could I ever write about that? I can’t, so like many of you, I will not watch these episodes until I know what happens at the end.

Even if everything is fine and dandy at the end, even if W/T are happier than ever in season 7, it will never be like before, I can never trust ME again. They have crossed the line and they can never take it back, I will never forget this or forgive it.

I know most people got this out of their systems right after we got the news, but since my first response was rage and anger (it always is with me), took awhile for the hurt to make it’s appearance. Just wanted to get this out of my system, I feel better now.

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited March 27, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited March 27, 2002).]

IP: Logged

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited March 27, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited March 27, 2002).]