The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe Willow & Tara Forever

by **Rastven** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:24 pm

If song lyrics are acting as inspiration for this whole sordid mess I think ME needs to listen to a song called History never repeats by Split Enz.
The chorus goes something like this:

History never repeats
I tell myself before I go to sleep
Don't say the words you might regret
I've lost before you know I can't forget.

by **shellybean** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:55 pm

quote:
Originally posted by mariacomet:
I don't think a reset, reversal is the only way to go...I think there are scenarios that we haven't thought of.
The main point is that I think most of us on this board are desperate to find a way that Tara is not gone and/or Willow is not evil.
Why?
Speaking for myself, Willow and Tara brings me hope. It makes me hope that even in the most horrible of places, true love is possible and can survive. It makes me hope that even in choas two people can find one another. Willow's courage and innocent optimism gives me hope. Tara's ability to be generous gives me hope.
Buffy, in general, used to give me hope. Yes, there was tears and angst, but overall there was hope.
In my eyes, killing off Tara and making Willow evil, totally and completely destroys my hope...
That's all I know. People have been quoting OMWF...and I will too. I don't want to stop watching Buffy. I'm a diehard fan. I love the show. I love the characters. But I've been through hell and I believed...and if the reward for my belief is more hell...I don't think I can continue being part of Buffy.

Oh I completely agree with everything you said. Buffy also gave me hope in the past even through all the angst and stuff, and I'm also a completely die hard Buffy fan and have been since the first ep.
And I'm also with you on the idea that Willow and Tara gives you hope. They completely did the same thing for me. Their characters are just incredible and it makes me feel like there's hope for me to find my Willow or Tara in the future.
Again, I agree with you about there being seemingly no point in killing off Tara. I think that this is absolutely the most pointless television death of all time. This includes killing of Jenny and Joyce who's deaths really got to me. The only point I see to doing this is to push Willow over the edge but I'm sure they could have found a number of other things that could have done that. I also feel like killing Tara kills my hope. Thats why I was so devastated when I heard of her death that I felt numb and physically sick.
What I was saying was just that we're getting so invested in the fact that Tara is going to come back when we have no proof at all that its going to happen. I just don't want to get my hopes up and KNOW that she'll come back and she ends up not. I'm the kind of person who always expects the worst so if it comes I'll be prepared, and if it doesn't I'll have a pleasant surprise. I mean we don't have any valid spoilers or evidence that Tara will be brought back. We only came up with that theory because it felt like the only possibility. Then we've clung to it because its like our last shred of hope. I just don't want all us kitties to get our hearts broken if it turns out that Tara isn't going to come back.
I think that its very possible for the whole thing to get reset, or that there are a number of other scenario's that we didn't think of that are possible. I just really hate getting dissapointed so I'm just protecting my heart by preparing for the worst.

------------------
"But with Tara, I just know she likes Willow, and she already has one of those" – "Family"

"Honey, in case you didn’t hear me the first six-thousand times, no more teleportation spells." – "Crush"

Willow: "I figured, life goes by so fast, if you don’t write stuff down it just gets…lost."
Tara: "Down to every last bagel"
Willow: "Down to every last everything I do with you" – "Forever"quote:

by **Spoil my ass** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 10:21 pm

The Rose---

Um, okay. I've been a Buffy fan since the first ep and am raising some valid questions. I love how people like you are so into the labels of "troll" and the like whenever anyone poses a question that you don't like. Tell me where in my message I flamed or posted hatred? It was an honest and direct message, that's my personality. I've dealt with people and labels before, but try and be a little open minded to questions and items posted for discussion.

by **xita** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 10:27 pm

I don't know how to put it to you nicely. This is a board about Willow and Tara. This is all that concerns us. You come in here unregistered with an offensive name and tell us how to feel and to deal with upcoming spoilers. Clearly you are not a w/t fan or a Tara fan. So, let me put it to you this way, this is not the place for you, you are not welcome here. My concern is w/t and the people who ship them, i.e. the kittens and you come to attack, I will show you the door. Don't like it, feel free to mail me but do not bring that attitude to the board and this goes for you and any other "concerned outsider." What do you care what we think? Let it go.

by **brick66** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 10:38 pm

I'm posting this one more time to make my point clear about the repitition of major plot points and how i think it points to Tara being resurrected. Doing things over until you get them right is a part of growing up and the Scoobs have been doing a lot of the wrong things over and having bad things happen to them this season. Here are a few of the thinkgs that have happened twice:

Buffy tells Spike she can never see him again
Tara and Willow have sex (according to spoilers)
Dawn is confronted about her stealing (according to spoilers)
Buffy addresses Spike as William
Xander inadvertently summons a demon in a search for a happy ending
Halfrek asks Dawn if she has a wish
Katrina is impersonated twice (according to spoilers)
Willows 'brings back' Buffy and Amy
The troika use a demon to throw Buffy off their trail
Xander extracts himself from marriage to a demon (Anya and Sweet)
A robot is destroyed (Buffybot and Warrenbot)
Warren attempts to kill Buffy
Willow conjures a forget spell
Willow visits Rack
Warren kills a woman by accident
Giles leaves for England twice

Now the thing about this trend - and I'm sure there are examples I'm missing - is that the second instance of each example is the more severe or meaningful. Xander not marrying Anya had greater weight than not marrying Rack; Giles seemed to leave for good the second time; Tara's death is a lot harder to take than Katrina's, etc

Following my logic, there should be another resurrection of Buffy, unless you count her leaving the alternate dimension where she was in the asylum. Since I don't think Buffy is going to die again, I think this points to a resurrection of another dead character (I vote for Tara.) Willow did bring back Amy, but Amy wasn't dead, just a rat. The resurrection of Buffy was important but it was expected. However, the resurrection of Tara would carry more weight because there doesn't seem to be a way it could be, especially since we know - from spoilers - that Willow is unsuccessful in her effort.

Now to give weight to those who think Xander holds the key to the reset, he was the one who broke the spell in Tabula Rasa, allowing everyone to remember what happened. The problem is that he did that inadvertently, just as he has caused trouble for himself and the gang despite his best intentions.

by **ex-lurker** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 11:09 pm

hi all,

I just had a thought.
From what we have been led to believe there have been manny wishes made that have never been undone. With that thought in mind,
why cant it be a wish that is made at the end that causes a reset.
Example what if Xander was laying on his deathbed and looked up and seen Anya and said
"I wish I had Married you while i had the chance" *POOF* here we are back at the Wedding

by **morgan1707** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 11:39 pm

quote:
Originally posted by The Godfather:
because Tara will spend the rest of his life living in tribute of Anya..
-Shawn

I doubt that since Tara won't remember it happening.

Also, if Ed's spoilers are true and Anya dies as a result of smashing her amulet, how will her sacrifice be explained to the Scoobies? No-one remembered Cordy's wish, not even Anya herself, so really, everyone should be puzzled as to why Anya isn't with them anymore. Makes sense? Clear as mud, really... quote:

by **All4W/T** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 11:50 pm

Interesting thought Ex Lurker..My question would be do we know for certain that Anya will not be back for the final season?? Alot depends on that regarding Xanders wish and it going back to the wedding..

If it did work out that way, it would be a clean slate for all, Buffys not with Spike, Willow and Tara are back together, fighting her magic addiction, Xander and Anya are married.

I think that would open the door for Spike and Amy to become formidable foes for the Scoobies in the final season..Spike with his chip removed now has a choice in what he does and Amy can wreak all sorts of havoc with her magic, tempting Willow to use hers to battle Amy..

Still havent figured out what they will do with Dawns character in the final season though, hmmm.

------------------
Be careful what you wish for..

by **ReiZo** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:00 am

ok..i have a more dramatic ending

tara is dead and wllow goes all bad.. se kills lots of people and whenshe is about to kill her friends, she realizes what she has done and kills herself.

and now we have willow dead, tara dead... and my heart broken in the trash..

and the live in hell ever after

ok.that was really dramatic... this is drivin' me nuts..

ok..a less darker scenario

willow goes bad.. and whn she is about to kill jonathan and warren *boom* they do a spell and go back in time..inthe wedding day..

and they live happily ever after..

to be honest..i dont think my dear tara will be alive at the end of the season... and i'm all depressed 'cause if that happens.. i will not be watchin BtVS anymore

see ya'...sorry for the typos... and the bad mood

by **morgan1707** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:05 am

quote:
Originally posted by All4W/T:
Interesting thought Ex Lurker..My question would be do we know for certain that Anya will not be back for the final season??

Nope, no *official* confirmation whatsoever on Emma's contract has been disclosed. We don't know if she's signed for next Season or not. Ed The Spoiler, and others at The Bronze, are saying that she isn't, Wanda and I think Marti Noxon too, have said all cast members are signed for next Season, so I'm assuming that means Emma too.

But no-one really knows. Take everything you hear with a pinch of salt until it's officially confirmed by Emma herself or someone connected with the show (e.g. a writer or someone like that). quote:

by **sam7777** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:17 am

Well we should know soon one way or another what is going to happen. They are currently filming ep 21 and will start on 22. I'm pretty sure that enough of the script will get out by the end of this month. I still think that they have to reset at least some of the end plot.

I really can't see Willow coming back as a regular character after torturing and killing Warren and trying to run down and kill the other two nerds. Sure they redeemed Angel and Anya (sort of) but those of them committed their crimes under the influence of demons. I think that they were working to redeem Faith but I think it works out better that she is in prison now. She kill one human (the geology professor) intentionally. If they leave things as they are and let Willow rejoin the group after what she has done, this is a much of a copout as a reset. If they really want to do growing up then Willow should face the consequences of murder (trial and prison).

I plan to watch the rest of this season but I'm not sure if I will tune in next season. I'm tired of the dark tone that the show has now. Buffy always had it's serious moments but there used to be some fun mixed in. "The West Wing" has a pretty serious subject and they still manage to get some laughs in.

by **Jen/jennpurr** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:42 am

quote:
Originally posted by the literary exterminator:
I know you weren't asking me, but ...
It's from when Buffy's talking to the Social Services person in "Gone".

That's right. Thank you so much. It was staring to drive me crazy, just like the lack of spoilers are.

Thanks again, Jen

------------------
Tara: I am, you know
Willow: What?
Tara: Yoursquote:

by **Bev** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:55 am

OK, I've been playing around with this idea for a couple of days now. So now I'm gonna throw it out and see what you think.

I originally was setting out to see if Episode 18 in each previous season gave any clues to the season finale. But when I started looking at episode titles for this season I'm like

Starting after Tabula Rasa the next 3 are Smashed, Wrecked, Gone. Then skipping Doublemeat Palace the next 3 are Dead Things, Older and Far Away, As You Were.

If Willow does the magicks then she would be smashed, the truck she is on would be wrecked when the magic runs out, and she would be gone as Sam Finn told her.

If Tara is killed, and from what we're getting I'd say that's a yes, she would be a dead thing. Dealing with the death of a loved one or close friend makes you feel older and far away. And as for as you were...the reset?

I've gotta say that Normal Again has made me feel very uneasy. Don't know if anyone remembers the series St. Elsewhere, but the series finale was about an autistic boy with a snowglobe that had a hospital in it and the entire series was a figment of his imagination. I'm just hoping that the BTVS season finale doesn't revisit the mental insitution...

[This message has been edited by Bev (edited March 25, 2002).]

by **bzengo** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:12 am

LONG POST

THIS IS ALL SPECULATION, but grounded in the spoilers and the shooting scripts.

I've been really thinking about the season ending, and looking at a lot of different speculation on different boards. Posts by others have influenced my thinking.

Here's how this post is organized.

A) Brief statement of my current speculation in both a reset and a non-reset scenario;

B) What I think Willow is going to do and how, and what Buffy and Spike will be doing to stop it (Spike warning: there will be some comments about Spike in here);

C) Finally, a whole bunch of quotes from the After Life shooting script, with running commentary.

As some others have said, I think After Life is crucial to seeing very specifically what Willow is going to attempt to do in her attempt to bring Tara back, and what roles Dawn, Buffy and Spike will be taking as well, along with the fate of the Scoobies involved in the resurrection.

I also think Ari may have been speculating along these lines, but there's so much speculation I really can't remember who said what.

First and foremost, I am dead certain that Willow, who has faced apocalypses and attacked an insane God for her lover, and who has raised the dead to save her best friend Buffy, would NEVER EVER EVER stop trying to bring back Tara. The only real question is how is she going to try, not if she is going to try. This process can only end with Tara saved, Willow dead or poofed/gone, or Willow with no more magic left. But so long as Willow has breath or magic left in her, she's going to try and get Tara back, and damn anyone who tries to stop her.

In addition, although our concern here at the Kitten is for W/T, I think as Bob has said, we really need to figure out what Buffy is doing. I am indebted to Lisa of Nine for the first speculation about the use of Dawn as the Key as a power source for Dark!Willow.

MY CURRENT BEST SPECULATION:

RESET SCENARIO

a) we're likely to see a lot of dead Scoobies, probably including everyone involved in the resurrection spell (Willow, Tara, Xander, Anya);

b) there will be a reset of some type, probably taking us back to episode 19 before Tara's death, or the start of the wedding, but possibly taking us all the way back to the end of Season 5. I'm not going to elaborate on the Season 5 scenario here, except to say that there's been enough repeats this season, enough hints that this is an alternative dimension or that something is truly wrong, that I consider it a remote but real possibility, that we'll end up back on the tower of The Gift with Doc and Glory, but with full memory of this season to guide the actions of all characters. Again, I think the much more likely scenario is a reset to the start of the wedding, or to Episode 19;

c) the reset will be based on God I have no damn idea what – there's just too many demons and quantum diamonds and black magic and witches, and for all I know, some Bunnies;

d) I suspect that if there is a wish early on, it will cause everyone to act without fully considering the consequences;

e)I'm pretty sure ME will let people remember what happened, as otherwise what would be the point;

f) the bad things could happen without any wish – things could just go bad. In that case, the reset could easily come through a wish at the very end, for example from Dawn to Hallie with all the Scoobies AND Buffy dead;

NON RESET SCENARIO

a) there will not be a reset;

b) someone (Jonathan?) will sacrifice his/her life to trade for Tara's through some means (troika time technology?), thus redeeming himself and truly growing up;

c) everyone remembers everything and life goes on with the knowledge of how bad things got, but it scares everyone straight

I consider the non-reset scenario much less likely.

WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH WILLOW, SPIKE AND BUFFY – the star of the show?

In both scenarios, I think Willow - and this is based on Afterlife and on Willow's actions at other places in the season as she mucked around with dimensions and threatened time travel - attempts to reset time/dimensions to before Buffy's resurrection.

In other words, Willow tries to take Buffy's resurrection back on the basis that Buffy came back wrong. This is why I also think we might get all the way back to the end of Season 5, with full memories of what happened in Season 6, except this time Spike somehow ends up sacrificing himself for Buffy and (don't ask me how) closing the portal.

Then we go into the summer with a cliffhanger for Buffy's relationship with Spike, but everyone else is okay. (Marti said in an interview that Buffy herself would have a kind of cliffhanger.) Even if we don't end up going back to Season 5, I'm fairly sure Spike is going to spend the summer in some sort of suspended animation or missing in some way, as a consequence of having saved Buffy from burning up in the dark fire which is freezing her, just as he saved her from burning up in OMWF. This will set in motion Spike's full redemption in Season 7 and eventual reconciliation with Buffy.

I also think that we'll spend next season with Tara the only one who can do magic, and as the senior partner in the W/T relationship, as Willow deals with the total loss of magic, and struggles to redefine herself and value herself without the crutch of magic to lean on.

Okay – let's get back to the point…

Why is Willow so sure Buffy came back wrong?

a) She has always been worried that Buffy came back wrong. We even had this foreshadowed in Season 5 with Dawn's resurrection of Joyce;

b) Because Buffy is emotionally involved and has been having sex with Spike, and the Buffy who died in The Gift would never have had sex with Spike; and

c) Because Willow blames Tara's death on Buffy's failure to stop Warren – just as Dawn blamed Buffy for Willow's Rack night where Dawn's arm got broken - and Willow also blames Buffy for the fact that it was Buffy whom Warren was after. The Buffy who died in The Gift easily beat Warren and Jonathan in prior years; if she were not wrong, she would never have been stopped by silly nerd boys. Furthermore, if Buffy had stayed dead, then Warren wouldn't have even been coming by their house to attack her, so Tara would still be alive.

Clearly, Buffy must be unresurrected.

Willow will likely attempt to reverse the resurrection, using the power of Dawn the Key, or any other magic source she can find. My guess and hope is she attempts to use Dawn as that has the most dramatic oomph to it. Remember, Willow has already hurt Dawn once while under the influence, and she almost got Dawn killed as well.

What is Spike doing in all this? I'm guessing he has his chip out and now has Buffy's back – as has been foreshadowed all year, most notably in Tabula Rasa - as he works with Buffy to prevent Willow from killing Dawn for her Key energy, and thus re-killing Buffy. In the process, he will have to hurt some humans which proves a test for him, for Buffy, and for any surviving Scoobies (especially Xander) for whom Spike may be now a "stake-on-sight" person. Spike passes the test, but it may not appear so to others (or to us) at first glance.

In the final battle, fire is involved, and Buffy must walk through the fire (duh) alone. Buffy almost dies in this battle, as the other Scoobies fail to save her.

But Spike does save her, most likely at the cost of being zapped into some other dimension or being frozen into some type of suspended animation (possibly by taking Willow's full magic force into himself. (cold black fire?) In this process, Buffy realizes that she loves Spike, as Leia did in The Empire Strikes Back, but Spike is now gone, possibly forever (well, he'll be back by fall sweeps – heh.)

Depending on if we have a reset or not, Willow either goes poof and vanishes along with all the Scoobies dying, OR, Tara, back from the dead manages to get through to Dark!Willow and gets her to turn off the fireworks.

FORESHADOWING FROM AFTER LIFE:

Here are a number of shooting script quotes from After Life which point to Willow resetting Buffy's resurrection, and Spike stopping her. I may comment on some of these right before the script excerpt starts. These are all in chronological order.

SPIKE
Listen. I've figured it out. Maybe
you haven't, but I have. Willow
knew there was a chance she'd come
back wrong. So wrong that you'd
have to-- that she'd have to get rid of
what came back. And she knew I
wouldn't let her. If any part of it was
Buffy, I wouldn't let her. That's why
she shut me out.

XANDER
What are you talking about? Willow
couldn't do that!

SPIKE
That right?

*** *** ***

SPIKE
The thing about magic? There's
always consequences. Always.

*** *** ***
(bzengo: Note in this section and in a subsequent section, that Tara says "Assume Crash Positions." Folks, if we're not heading for a crash, I don't know what we're doing... The Writers don't repeat something twice without reason. Willow believes right from the start that she may have brought back a "wrong" Buffy.)

Tara puts her head next to Willow, cheek-to-cheek, listens. Willow smiles gently. Tara pulls back, returns the smile.

TARA
I can't hear it. Tell me about it.

WILLOW
Well, there's a little voice that's so
proud of what I did. And there's
one that says it was a huge mistake,
that she'll never be right again. And
then the first one -- it's a chatty one -
it says that people get over all kinds
of things, and Buffy's way stronger
than people. And then the second
voice is all like, "Oh yeah? Sez who?"
and then the first voice gets all
defensive--

TARA
Wow. I have this voice that says
you're not gonna get much sleep
tonight.

Tara wraps herself around Willow.

TARA
Is this good?

WILLOW
Yeah. I think it makes it quieter in here.

They lie quietly for a beat.

TARA
You know what I think? I think we
were all assume-crash-positions.

WILLOW
What-huh-now?

TARA
It's, it's, it's like ... we were all
tensed up, like we were expecting
it to screw up. We weren't prepared
for it to actually go right.

WILLOW
Yeah.

A beat, then:

WILLOW
Tara?

TARA
(sleepy)
Yeah?

WILLOW
If it did go right? Wouldn't she
be ... happier? Like, wouldn't she be
so happy we brought her out?

TARA
I'm sure she is.

WILLOW
(not buying it)
Yeah...

TARA
You thought she'd say thanks? Be
more grateful?

WILLOW
Am I a terrible person if I say yes?

TARA
Give her time. She'll get there.

WILLOW
Right. No need to be in a big furry hurry.

TARA
Exactly.

They lie quietly.

TARA (cont'd)
Are you listening for her?

WILLOW
A little. She's right next door.
If something wasn't okay... I
need to know if something isn't okay.

TARA
I'm sure it's okay.

*** *** ***
(bzengo: The faces in the photo are of the four people who brought her back. And the faces turn into the faces of death.)

There is a framed photograph on the dresser: a picture of Buffy, Willow and Xander. Buffy gets up, picks up the picture. She carries it over to a wall where other snapshots are taped up, or hanging in frames -- these include a number of pictures of Buffy with Xander and Willow and also Tara and Anya. She looks at them, trying to connect herself to the girl in the photos.

She is looking at the framed photo when THE FACES CHANGE. They turn into faces of death: decayed, skeletal, empty eyed. She looks up at the other photos. The same thing is happening in each of them. Buffy and her friends become corpses.

Buffy closes her eyes for a second. When she looks again, the pictures are normal. Buffy continues to stare at them, expressionless.

*** *** ***
(bzengo: Here's a repeat of Tara's "Assume Crash Positions" along with something going wrong in the resurrection, and demon's loose in the world. And Willow isn't all powerful. Oh yeah, and Xander - how bad is it going to get?)

XANDER
It was very bad. Very very very very
very very bad. Bad.

ANYA
(re: Xander)
He's all traumatized.

WILLOW
Well, whatever it is, it's not a
traditional haunting, 'cause it's
not limited to one specific place
and there's not, you know, a dead
person.

TARA
Not anymore.

ANYA
I bet it's a hitchhiker.

XANDER
A hitchhiker?

ANYA
Standard way to travel between
alternate dimensions. Some
thing-ama-demon sees someone
moving between worlds, and grabs
on for the ride.

WILLOW
You mean some Hell beastie rode
back with Buffy. Like ... we're
responsible for this.

TARA
Assume crash positions.

XANDER
What?

TARA
Nothing.

ANYA
I think we shouldn't've brought Buffy
back. I knew it was going to go badly.
I should've said something.

WILLOW
Hey, you know what, yeah! You
should've! At least you could've
mentioned the "highjackers" so
we could stop 'em!

ANYA
They're hitchhikers, not highjackers,
and I thought you knew! It's basic
stuff! You're supposed to be the
all-powerful witch, which--

*** *** ***
(bzengo: Now we get details on the demons - five different kinds so far who can all move through dimensions, and at least two of them mess with perception. Anyone - how many of these have we seen so far? I count one invisible one and one that messes with perception. And none that are dripping fluids. Ewwww.)

INT. MAGIC BOX - NIGHT

Buffy, Xander, Anya, Willow and Tara doing the research thing. Anya's chair has a cushion. Buffy is staring at a book, but doesn't seem to be seeing it. Dawn looks over Tara's shoulder at a legal pad with a hand-written list on it.

DAWN
What's the list?

ANYA
Possible hitchhikers.

XANDER
(explaining)
Demons that might have come out of
Hell at the same time Buffy did.

DAWN
(reads)
Skaggmore demons, Trellbane demons,
Skitterers, Large and Small Bone-
Eaters ...

Dawn thinks about that.

DAWN (cont'd)
If we get to pick, I say we go with
the Small Bone-Eaters.

ANYA
That just means they prefer eating
things with little bones.
(beat)
Like you.

WILLOW
That's just what we have so far.
Five species of demons that have
been known to move transdimensionally.
Two of them may be invisible in
this dimension and two others can
perform spells to alter perception.

ANYA
That's four. What's the other one like?

TARA
Kinda like the others, only dripping
with viscous fluid.

*** *** ***
(bzengo: Now we've got fire and death and its all about the resurrection that clearly didn't go as planned. The fire burns the books on the table. With Giles gone, the books are Willow's province. In other words, metaphorically, Willow is burned to death for her role in the resurrection, through death taking over and using Dawn. Hello - keyness? And Tara is there as it happens.)

Dawn whips her head toward Anya. Dawn's eyes are WHITE.

DAWN
Idiot.

Startled, everyone turns to look at Dawn.

ANYA
(quickly)
You can have my coffee.

Dawn's blank eyes scan the group.

DAWN
All of you did it, Stupid children,
Did you think the blood wouldn't
reach you? I smell the death on you,
LOOK AT WHAT YOU'VE DONE!

Suddenly Dawn ROARS FIRE AT THEM. They dive to the side, and the flames CATCH SOME OF THE BOOKS ON THE TABLE ON FIRE.

Dawn collapses to the floor, unconscious.

TARA
Dawn!

XANDER
Fire, fire, fire.

*** *** ***
SPIKE
Willow's getting pretty strong, isn't
she? Bringing you back. Hard to
get a good night's death 'round here.

*** *** ***
(bzengo: This next section is SO rich. Just read it inside of looking at how Dawn is concerned about Willow's actions against Buffy. Also, in Anya's first line below, we see that in fact, the Scoobies have NOT paid the price - they just got a gift with the resurrection. But the price is yet to be paid; this is just a warning shot that looks like but actually isn't THE PRICE TO BE PAID. Later on, we have Willow actually talking about a reset. And then the others assuring Dawn that no reset will actually happen.)

WILLOW
Think of it like, the world doesn't
like you getting something for free.
We asked for this huge gift -Buffy -
and the world said, fine. If you get
that, you have to take this too ... and
it made the demon.

ANYA
Technically, that's not a price.
That's a gift with purchase.

DAWN
If you made a demon how come
we don't see it? I mean, we just
see us. Doing stuff.

WILLOW
I think it's out of phase with this
dimension. Its consciousness is here,
but its body is caught in the ether
between existing and not existing.

TARA
It doesn't have a body... so it's
borrowing ours ... It borrowed
Dawn and Anya ...

WILLOW
Or it's manifesting copies of them,
like it did when Buffy came at us ...

TARA
It's using them to do stuff. To scare
us, attack us.

XANDER
So we need to uncreate it, right?
Get it the rest of the way out of our
world.

ANYA
He's right. Return the unwanted gift.
Metaphorically it works out exactly right.

Willow is looking through the books ...

WILLOW
Uh-huh. Except ... it's linked to the spell.
When we send it away, it's like the spell
doesn't exist. Like it never happened.

DAWN
(softly)
Like it never brought Buffy back.

WILLOW
Yes.

Dawn is in control here, quietly hurt, demanding attention.

DAWN
You can't do that. You can't think for
a second that you're going to do that.

ANYA
Dawn--

Dawn doesn't take her eyes off Willow.

DAWN
If you think you can give her back to
me and then take her away again... No.
That's worse than if you'd never brought
her back. You can't mess with people's
lives this way! What about what would
happen to her? You'd send her back to
where she was, hell or whatever?

WILLOW
No. Dawn, we're not going to do it
that way.

Dawn turns to the others, appealing to them.

DAWN
How can you let her do this? How can
you even talk about letting her go? I
thought you loved her too!

TARA
We do. Honey, you're not listening.
She said we'll find another way.

XANDER
We will.

DAWN
Then do it!

*** *** ***
(bzengo: Buffy is going to be offered a choice to live or die. We can assume that this time, she will choose to live.)

DEMON (cont'd)
Or did they even give you a choice?

*** *** ***

XANDER
It's okay, Dawnie. Willow and Tara
are doing a spell.

DAWN
It's not gonna send Buffy away, is it?

So...

I think we're going to have Willow attempting to reverse the spell on Buffy, assuming that Buffy is all wrong, and if the wrong Buffy hadn't been there, Warren wouldn't have come after Buffy, and Tara wouldn't have died.

Enough. Comments?

------------------
bzengo

Joss I love invoking all those (old horror) movies, but at the same time, the core of this series, emotionally, is a very safe place.

Joss (Sun Aug 30, 1998)
. . . Sooooo, someone is hoping this season will be less traumatic? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

edited for spelling, to add a mention of the Marti interview, and to remove one bad pun.

[This message has been edited by bzengo (edited March 25, 2002).]

by **shellybean** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:51 am

Jesus christ Bzengo, that was a hell of a long post. I know I've never read one that long before! My eyes still hurt! I can't really remember what you wrote because of the pain but I do know that you made some interesting points. And I never really connected a lot of the things you did before with the past episodes and stuff. Interesting.
And Bev, very interesting too how you put the titles together like that.
And All4W/T, why'd you say final season? There's no saying that season 6 will be the final season! Don't scare me like that, please! I know that theres a possibility that it will be the final season, but just because UPN only contracted it up to next season, doesn't mean that the contract won't be renewed! Unless you heard something that I didn't? PLEASE tell me you didn't!

------------------
"But with Tara, I just know she likes Willow, and she already has one of those" – "Family"

"Honey, in case you didn’t hear me the first six-thousand times, no more teleportation spells." – "Crush"

Willow: "I figured, life goes by so fast, if you don’t write stuff down it just gets…lost."
Tara: "Down to every last bagel"
Willow: "Down to every last everything I do with you" – "Forever"

by **capricornmist** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:01 am

I think Bzengo has a point, techinically they haven`t paid the price for this resurrection.

If you think all the bad stuff that is happening, is happening to the scoobies that helped perform the resurrection spell.

Willow looks like she is going to be paying the biggest price of all, which ties in with what we have heard spoiler wise so far i.e Tara dies and Willow goes bad.

As for the reset, I think alot of people are relying to heavily on this. Nowhere yet has it been stated that there will be a reset, only people hoping for one.
Also if the above comments are correct then a reset wouldn`t really be feasible as it wouldn`t tie in with anything. If the scoobies are being punished then it is going to take an outside force to help them, no wishes etc, I think this is going to be a life for a life thing.

This is definately food for thought.

------------------
"I want you, but i`m not giving in this time.
Goodbye to you, goodbye to everything that I knew.
You were the one I loved, the one thing I tried to hold onto."

by **The Partyman** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:44 am

bzengo

That was an awesome post!

Be very pround of your insightful analysis.

I've no idea if you're right, but its fascinating reading nonetheless!

by **Xanderella** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:47 am

bzengo: That was spectacular. And I thank you for it, because all along, I've been thinking Tara had to be the price. Not because of the cliche, I expect more from Joss & co. than that, but because Willow was responsible, in the end for Buffy's resurrection. She kept aspects of it secret (the vino de madre) that the others never knew.

But your post pulls it all together. I think unless, until we get real spoilers, I would bet folding money that this will play out in a way that is very tied to the points in your spec. You are right, they haven't paid. And, I like your spec because it leaves plenty of room for hope. Damn, that was just impressive.

by **Kamil** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:10 am

quote:
Originally posted by Bev:
[snippage]
Starting after Tabula Rasa the next 3 are Smashed, Wrecked, Gone. Then skipping Doublemeat Palace the next 3 are Dead Things, Older and Far Away, As You Were.
If Willow does the magicks then she would be smashed, the truck she is on would be wrecked when the magic runs out, and she would be gone as Sam Finn told her.
If Tara is killed, and from what we're getting I'd say that's a yes, she would be a dead thing. Dealing with the death of a loved one or close friend makes you feel older and far away. And as for as you were...the reset?

Ya know, that's one of those things that makes me scratch my head and go hummm... I think I like it.

So if we take the next three confirmed titles, we have Entropy, Seeing Red, and Villains. Entropy seems to represent a state of flux, where things can't hold together -- seeing red seems to indicate *enormous* anger, and villains, well, that seems to indicate villains *g*. But is there a pattern there, like you saw in the others, that I'm just not seeing?

quote:

I've gotta say that Normal Again has made me feel very uneasy. Don't know if anyone remembers the series St. Elsewhere, but the series finale was about an autistic boy with a snowglobe that had a hospital in it and the entire series was a figment of his imagination. I'm just hoping that the BTVS season finale doesn't revisit the mental institution...
[This message has been edited by Bev (edited March 25, 2002).]

I remember St. Elsewhere, and the end of the Newhart show *g*, and while I think they're going to do *something* with the AU in "Normal Again", I doubt that it'll turn out that all six years of Buffy has been the delusions of a very sick girl.

I'm thinking that both universes are 'real', and that either somehow the demon poison allowed Buffy to transverse realities, or my current favorite theory: if you remember back to "Bargaining", Willow was definitely interrupted before she was done casting the resurrection spell. Also remember how *insistent* Tara was that Willow not be interrupted during the process -- even when the slashes on her arms appeared and the whole snake thing, *shiver* Tara insisted it was okay, Willow was strong, she knew she'd be tested, and it was crucial that she not be interrupted before the spell was complete.

Except that she was.

And I've been wondering ever since, especially with the way Buffy's been behaving this season, if Willow only got back the Slayer half of Buffy -- remember the part of the spell we heard was a plea for Osaris to 'release the warrior of the people'. I think it's possible that there was more to the spell, including releasing the human half of that warrior that Willow never got to perform -- so asylum!Buffy is just as real as our Buffy -- is in fact her missing half, her humanity -- but to be complete they need to be merged somehow.

As we've seen, once an AU is created (The Wish, Dopplegangland), the alternate universe creates its own backstory, so if Buffy were split in two, her human half would have its own reality -- and the part of her that remembers her *real* life would be trying desperately to get back to the part of her that's the Slayer -- hence the psychosis.

In fact, Willow's trip down the darker side of things this season (the mind wipes and the gratuitous use of magic for no real purpose other than because she could) might be a result of having such a powerful spell interrupted. God alone knows what sort of an effect it would have on a witch, being interrupted while casting a spell of that magnitude. Might say leave her with a *need* to finish something she can't even put a name to, something that just tickles her inside -- encouraging her to get it done no matter what? Leading to all sorts of wacky spell castings?

Also for what it's worth, I think Sam was full of it when she talked about the shamans that went 'away'. Away, where, exactly? And how does she know that? It seems if they'd gone poof, or exploded, or combusted in front of everyone Sam would've used a wee bit more descriptive language? Ya know? For effect if nothing else. But gone away could simply mean that they went out to the corner store for groceries and nobody bothered to tell Sam about it. *g* Okay, so I'm reaching there, but I still think she's the ultimate in an unreliable narrator where that part of the story is concerned. I smell a very stale red herring. But then, it could just be me.

Perhaps after Tara's death *weep*, Tara might be able to do some sort of dimension walking and be able to use her powers as a witch to reunite the Buffys. And just maybe the Powers (who've never been really named on Buffy -- but who seem to be the same guys that are quite often invoked or talked about on Angel)(I think it was the Powers who made it snow in Amends) might reward Tara for her help and realize that Willow can't be saved w/o Tara's love. And that Willow desperately needs saving -- there's much talk of a coming Apocalypse on Angel -- with the Slayer figuring as heavily in the prophecies as Angel himself does; so much so that Angel gave up his humanity to be able to fight with Buffy (IWRY). Since the Powers were willing to take back the day where Angel was human to aid the cause of the coming battle, might they not also be willing to take back another castrophic event to help the cause of good? Because Willow won't be much good to anyone, let alone Buffy's "Big Gun" if she's lost Tara to a senseless death. Besides all that insanity and rage and other assorted madnesses.

Hummm.....
--
Kamil
Gunn: "I mean, who has time for love when you're out there doing it with the demons...and didn't that just come out sad and wrong."
"Heartthrob" Angel

The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe Willow & Tara Forever

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