Here's the place to discuss this week's Buffy episode.
by Zelda » Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:50 pm
by Warduke_1 » Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:18 pm
A great ep, you guys will love it, the Willow/Anya bickering is FUNNY, well I have to go...watch it again
Transplanted by Zelda
by BBOvenGuy » Mon Jan 08, 2001 9:18 pm
Now maybe they can finally sneak a kiss past the censors and get that issue laid to rest as well.
by Zelda » Mon Jan 08, 2001 9:33 pm
by BBOvenGuy » Mon Jan 08, 2001 9:39 pm
However, everything is a process. For a long time Joss didn't want to "label the relationship." Now he has. Perhaps the kiss is just a matter of him getting comfortable with the idea. Or perhaps he's just waiting for the appropriate way to do it. Or both.
Since none of us is inside Joss Whedon's head (at least as far as we know... ), we can't really know for certain. I'm willing to be patient with him, though. To me, the relationship isn't hanging on whether or not we ever see a kiss.
by tyche » Tue Jan 09, 2001 5:34 am
quote:
- Tara says that she is allergic to shrimp
[This message has been edited by tyche (edited January 09, 2001).]
by xita » Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:27 am
WHAT?S IT CALLED?
?Triangle.?
WHO?S RESPONSIBLE?
Jane Esperson, who authored what is probably the funniest ?Buffy? this season, the Xander-duplicating yarn ?The Replacement.?
WHAT DOES TV GUIDE SAY?
?Buffy?s post-Riley emotional turmoil is interrupted by a malevolent troll accidentally set loose on Sunnydale by Anya and Willow.?
ANY GOOD?
Yes. It?s a very funny one, with loads of laugh-provoking Willow and Anya dialogue. Also amusing is the aforementioned ?troll? (portrayed by Abraham Benrubi -- you?ll remember him as Jerry the hulking admissions clerk on ?ER?), who comes off as an amusingly ill-mannered monster Viking. (He carries a Thor-evoking giant hammer, but his horns are in his head instead of his helmet.) He?s the kind of oafish barbarian who?ll fling an enormous dumpster across the street and declare, ?Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Puny receptacle!!? Benrubi does a superior job.
WHY MIGHT THIS EPISODE BE QUASI-HISTORIC?
I believe tonight marks the first time since the premiere of ?Angel? that a new ?Buffy? was not immediately followed by a new ?Angel.?
THE BIG NEWS?
Rupert Giles spends most of the episode on a three-day trip visiting the libraries of the Watchers Council, looking for clues about Glory, Dawn, and so on. If memory serves, this is the first time Giles has visited the Council since they booted him out in season three.
IS RILEY FINN REALLY GONE?
Really most completely gone. And, as anticipated, Marc Blucas is absent from the opening titles.
DOES AMBER BENSON GET THE MARC BLUCAS SPOT IN THE TITLES?
Sadly, she does not. Tara?s alter-ego remains confined to the realm of semi-regular.
IS BUFFY?S MOM REALLY ALL BETTER?
Seemingly. Joyce Summers appears fully healthy and normal again, and is even spotted wearing something besides a bathrobe.
DOES DAWN MANIFEST ANY SUPERPOWERS?
No.
IS XANDER MADE A JUNIOR WATCHER?
No.
ANY SIGN OF GLORY, BEN OR DREG?
Nope. The off-screen Glory, however, still has everybody pretty jumpy.
ANYTHING NEW ON SPIKE?
He seems dazed and frustrated by the fact that, despite Riley?s sudden departure, Buffy still hates him. When the troll shows up at the Bronze, Spike gets off a funny line involving a menu item.
HOW?S IT END? (MAJOR SPOILER HERE)
Dawn overhears Buffy, Giles and Joyce discussing Dawn?s otherworldly origins. Executive Producer Joss Whedon.
HERC, DIDN?T YOU SAY LAST TIME THAT YOU HAD THEORIES ON WHERE BUFFY IS HEADED THIS SEASON?
I did, but claim no special knowledge beyond having seen 5.10. Here?s what I jotted down (but did not post for fear of over-spoiling) at the conclusion of 5.10. I offer this only to quell the enormous number of e-mails requesting it. My admittedly unimpressive theories:
Buffy will fall for Ben the Evil Intern.
Ben will use Buffy in his quest to exploit Dawn.
Giles will reunite with the Watcher's Council.
Xander will become a junior watcher.
The Council will betray Buffy.
Riley will unexpectedly return in the finale and team with Spike to save Buffy from Ben.
Riley will die in the attempt.
Herc will be lucky if 50 percent of this proves true.
NEXT ON ?BUFFY?:
More reruns. Then the slayer turns 20!
WHAT ELSE?
According to WB Entertainment president Susanne Daniels at the Television Critics Assn. winter press tour (as reported in Monday?s Hollywood Reporter): ?There isn't a drama on our current schedule that we want to cancel.? As a result, Daniels said, the premiere of the one-hour drama ?Dead Last? has been bumped to next autumn.
HERC?S RATING FOR ?BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER? 5.11?
***1/2
The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:
**** better than most motion pictures
*** actually worth your valuable time
** as horrible as most stuff on TV
* makes you quietly pray for bulletins
I will pillage your lands and dwellings!! I will burn your crops and make merry sport with your more attractive daughters!!
by TyRex316 » Tue Jan 09, 2001 7:37 pm
by Spring » Tue Jan 09, 2001 7:47 pm
But I have to comment, what the fuh were they thinking with all that makeup? Everyone's hair and makeup was like completely insane. Tara's air, still reddish. Willow's curly thing. Buffy wavy at the ends, straight on the top. Eh?
And Tara's blue eyeshadow and pink lips? Oh my.
by april » Tue Jan 09, 2001 7:57 pm
this is my "analysis with a heavy focus on tara":
my very favorite line, even eclipsing "hello, gay now!", was when buffy and tara enter the decimated and empty magic shop, and tara runs up to buffy saying "buffy, something's been here and willow's gone!" with the most worried look on her face. so cute! you can just *see* on her face how much she loves willow and how concerned she is.
willow's powers in this ep are truly awesome, as well. when she made the cash register disappear and floated all of those things in the magic shop? wow! i must say, though, i'm a bit worried. willow is starting to get bery nonchalant (sp?) with the way she throws around spells. the troll was bad enough - if she doesn't watch it, she could do something seriously bad.
speaking of, why aren't we seeing her and tara doing spells together anymore? come to think of it, why aren't we seeing tara doing magic at *all* this season? have we seen it even once, other than the blind cadria spell during "family"?
and this leads me into my biggest problem with this ep: tara was lame! throughout the whole final scene in the magic shop, every single other scoobie does something to try and fight the troll - xander tries valiently to attack him, buffy works her slayer mojo, anya bravely tries to distract him and willow is casting spells as fast as she can. what is tara doing? cowering in the corner, as far as i can tell. she doesn't try to help willow (or even run over to her to see if she's okay), she doesn't try to cast a spell of her own, she doesn't even *say* anything.
now i'm sorry, the tara that cast a smoke spell when she was chased by a demon last season, the tara that was worried sick about her willow a few scenes before, that tara would *not* stand idly by while a troll threatened her friends and her girlfriend! jane, jane, what sort of writing is that? i sincerely hope that the shooting script will reveal that tara did try to do something, but it had to be cut because of time.
this tara was also much more shy than we've seen her in a while. maybe she's only not shy around willow, because we saw a much more confident, articulate tara during the rooftop scene in the last taraful ep. but i don't mind her shyness, really. especially in the scene where she buffy hug, her shyness is adorable.
and i'm so glad that they let anya talk about shellfish again, and that we got to find out tara's allergic to shrimp. that was a cute addition.
also, i was very happy to see the buffy/tara bonding. i thought it was great during the scene in the bronze when buffy sent xander off to look for the troll and willow and anya to the magic shop, but kept tara with her. i think she liked having tara as a sidekick.
what else? poor spike...he's really in for it now...head over heels...
and i loved xander's line at the beginning "i hardly remember that riley's gone!". sorry riley fans, but i totally agree.
buffy was oddly melodramatic tonight, no? i know that she was being all cheesy on purpose, but what was up with that? at least we finally get to see her in something that's not ultra-serious slayer mode.
oh, back to tara for a sec (lol): way to go tara, taking xander's cue to leave the magic shop and not get drawn into willow and anya's fight! she's very perceptive about interpersonal things. i hope we get to see more of that from her.
hello gay now was great. i also loved when anya said to xander "and willow's not going to steal you, because she's gay!", and willow just sort of shrugged at him. hee hee...i have been waiting for a moment like this on tv for a long time. willow has a sexuality! there must be a lot of people freaking out right now.
what do i want to see most in future eps? (other than that damn kiss) let's see willow and tara do some kick ass magic together! willow is clearly really powerful now, and i know tara has more for us to see. they need to do something that really shakes things up.
okay, i'm sure there are tons of things i've forgotten to say, but i'll let someone else have a turn now.
what a great ep! much woo, and even more hoo!
edited to add one more gripe: the scene in the beginning where buffy and dawn talk on and on about riley was almost too painfully melodramatic to watch. could they have said the same things over again one more time? the scooby scene in the magic shop after that was like a breath of fresh air.
[This message has been edited by april (edited January 09, 2001).]
by darvangi » Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:09 pm
Seriously, about 45 minutes into this ep I was almost convinced it was a stinker, but by the end I realized that it was just the middle part with the Troll that was bad. There were some scenes that looked like the director was having trouble getting the appropriate performances out of the actors, and their interactions were kind of goofy. What really made the ep come through all right for me were the great scenes at the beginning and the end with Buffy and Tara and Buffy and Giles. There was some incredibly sweet stuff there.
I thought Buffy's scenes of crying about X/A were hilarious. They were going for a very girlish look for her with the lack of heavy colors in her eye shadow and the ponytails and the loose-fitting clothes. This look worked for me with this post-Riley story. I thought that was very clever.
Its a shame that the "gay now" line happened during one of the weaker scenes, but I was able to enjoy the line later on Anya had, saying "she's gay" - that was so cool. They said it. Willow is gay. Holy crap. I give it a big thumbs up even with the weak scenes in the middle.
by Spring » Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:10 pm
Editing to respond to April:
I was thinking the SAME THING about that stupid conversation between Buffy and Dawn about Riley. When I saw all the Willow, Anya, Tara interaction in the beginning I got all excited, then they had the Dawn/Buffy scene and I was so bored. And then I said that mantra that I've been saying most of this season "Spring, it's not the Willow and Tara show, it's the Buffy show. It's all about Buffy." So when that was over and we moved on, I was so f***ing relieved!! Halle-freakin-lujah! I was like getting a wish granted.
[This message has been edited by Spring (edited January 09, 2001).]
by gogirrrr » Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:14 pm
How wonderful it was to see screen pairings that lately have been seldom tried: Buffy/Tara, Willow/Anya & Xander/Spike. Spring, you're right! The eps was "light as air."
One complaint tho' I was a tad upset on how Buffy went on and on and on about Xander and Anya's love and zip, nothing, nada about Willow and Tara's. I know the troll specifically mentioned X/A's love but after all that happened, Willow was in as much danger as Anya........no acknowledement whatsoever. And you're right, April, no W/T hugs/kisses.
I guess I should just be happy with the "Hello, GAY now" line, which was sooooo incredibly cute.
So looking forward to the next Riley-less eps,
kate
edited for spelling
[This message has been edited by gogirrrr (edited January 10, 2001).]
by Roxton » Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:20 pm
I have to agree with April, I did find it strange that Tara didn't help Willow while she was trying to cast the spell during the final scene in the magic shop. In fact it was strange that Buffy sent Willow and Anya to the Magic Shop to prepare the spell instead of Willow and Tara. The only reason I can think of is that it allowed for the episode to focus more on what was happening between Willow and Anya.
Finally I have to say I thought both Willow and Tara looked great to-night. I like the new look Willow.
[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited January 09, 2001).]
by Warduke » Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:59 pm
Tara running to Buffy telling her that something was there and that Willow’s gone (loved that scene, Tara was so worried) but then when Buffy and her arrive at the Bronze, Tara looks at Willow and that’s it, no hug, no nothing, they could have had them hug at least
And Tara not helping Willow with a spell to get rid of the troll…I guess the writers wanted to concentrate on W/A.
As for Tara not helping at the end, when she walks in, Willow yells out “Stay back Tara”…so that’s why she didn’t help
And finally at the end, all the hugs and stuff from X/A and NOTHING from W/T and Buffy could have at least looked at them when she was talking about love but we did get the “Hello, Gay now!” line
[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited January 09, 2001).]
by eekiboo » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:01 pm
good points:
1. "HELLO, GAY NOW!"of course everybody'll love this quote fr Willow after watching it. the word "gay" has been said. alleluia! i can't recall them ever saying "gay" b4 esp. in S4, and they basically say "doing the wicca thing" or "the whole wicca thing" or "witch stuff" instead of saying 'gay' out loud. so Willow admitted it finally! and Anya too! yay! extra points for this!
2. loved Buffy and Tara talking abt normal stuff like school AND the Buffster letting it all out over Tara's shoulders re: Riley... and Tara seemed supportive and quite didn't know what to do with Buffy crying all over her... cute.
3. the Anya and Willow squabble. i know it has been going on since a few eps back that Anya and Willow don't really get along and this ep has proven it and squandered on the topic, in a good way of course.
4. Xander's decision to choose neither Anya nor Willow when the troll was asking him to. he obviously loves both and would suffer intently rather than give up on them. very heroic indeed! you go Xander! his hand must've hurt...ouch...!
5. Spike doing the rt thing by helping the wounded expecting Buffy would be touched but instead telling him just the opposite. ouch! now that's one confused Spike for ya! heh.heh.
6. Dawn and Buffy talking abt the hurt and pain. reminds me of me and my sis. sisters do talk like that and it was captured in such a very well-detailed and familiar manner. loved it. plus Dawn heard what they were talking abt in the end scene. altho' she hasn't heard much, she knows she is somehow involved. what will be her reaction? will she be aloof? will she confront Buffy? will she write her thoughts again in her journal? or tell the others (maybe Tara?) we'll see what happens.
7. Tara worried that Willow's missing. and Buffy assuring her "we'll find her..." or something of that sort. yeah!
8. Tara's "cool" hair. love it more than she was a blondie.
ok, that's all i can remember rt now. now to the bad points:
1. Willow's new 'do. don't like. sorry. like the straight hair better.
2. ok, we all know Tara is NOT into "violence" but she could have helped Willow cast the reverse spell for the troll instead of just watching the whole rumble or even a "can i help with the spells?" would have sufficed.
3. the troll. aren't trolls supposed to small? coz i have these british comic mags fr way back and there are trolls there but they are tiny. course, we can't have tiny trolls running around coz Buffy won't be fighting 'em, she'll just squash 'em and what's the story in that? oh well. atleast the face under the mask looked familiar... paging ER! who let the dog out? he seemed just one of the 'we-can-beat-u-anytime' monsters of the wk. duh?
4. u can definitely tell it was SMG’s stunt double in one of the fight scenes.
sorry, way tooo long. but i just had to comment after watching it freshly two hrs ago. this is an ep worth watching more than once! this is the end. back to the short posts... heh.heh. peace
by Rayne » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:10 pm
quote:
Originally posted by gogirrrr:
One complaint tho' I was a tad upset on how Buffy went on and on and on about Zander and Anya's love and zip, nothing, nada about Willow and Tara's.
When I read the script, I thought Buffy's crying jag at the end was supposed to include both couples, but it didn't come across that way in the actual episode. Here's what it said:
BUFFY
There, see how nice things worked
out? And look at you guys...
(looking at Xander and Anya)
So good and alive and together.
She starts to cry.
BUFFY
(looking at Willow and Tara)
So together... and good... and alive...
Everyone looks uncomfortable as Buffy cries harder.
BUFFY
I'm just so... happy for you!
************************
I'll be posting the complete script in the morning.
------------------
Rayne
The Buffy Shooting Script Site
by gogirrrr » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:34 pm
kate
by Rayne » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:39 pm
quote:
Originally posted by gogirrrr:
Hmmmm...curious....I wonder why the change not to include W/T in Buffy's couple/love gushing
I think the director just didn't get that point across (I think it was a new guy). They did flash to Tara and Willow, but it didn't feel like Buffy was referring to them as well. So I'd chalk it up to bad direction for that scene.
by Gudanov » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:52 pm
The focus couple was X/A so I think that was the reason why there were those odd W/T moments everyone is pointing out. Tara was sort of neglected as the episode went on. Somehow I think X/A angst in on the horizon, the last two episodes feel like a setup.
by illya2 » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:56 pm
But maybe a couple thoughts of my own...
Yeah I wasn't too nuts about Willow's hair either. But I LOVED that choker. Willowneck is SUCH good neck. Imagine the tip of your tongue playing along its texture... never wanted to be a choker before.
My favorite line: "Puny receptacles!" Of course it could be taken any number of ways but it was the funniest thing I've ever heard a troll utter. And by the way I loved whatsisname Benrobi as the troll. He hadda be one of the best villains ever. Cracked me up with his talk of ale and mead and such.
And last I gotta agree that when Tara came running out of the back room all concerned for willow I got all goosepimply and made these moaning sounds and the guy I was watching with sorta looked all puzzed out at me. (snicker)
happy W/T love to all -Ill
------------------
"A watcher scoffs at gravity" - Giles
by newmoon07 » Tue Jan 09, 2001 11:58 pm
by xita » Wed Jan 10, 2001 12:02 am
by BBOvenGuy » Wed Jan 10, 2001 12:06 am
Take the scene where Buffy and Tara rush into the Bronze. The director would have been the one to shoot the scene with Willow playing out the million-dollars gag instead of having Tara hug her, yes? That's not how I would have done it at all. If they were that pressed for time, they should have cut the "just checking" line - it's such a cliche that the gag actually works better with the last line unsaid, because the audience members are all filling it in themselves anyway. A hug from Tara would have been more true to character and a better bang for the few seconds they had available.
The long first act also suggests that someone didn't know which gags to cut. I can understand - they're all great gags, but if having too many interferes with the flow of the story you've got to cut some of them.
Even having said that, though, I still think this was one of the best eps of the year.
By the way, has anyone noticed any net-ugliness over the "Hello, gay now!" line? There's been some grumbling on the USEnet, but there's always grumbling on the USEnet so I can't tell if it's anything special.
by Anyalvr » Wed Jan 10, 2001 12:08 am
1. How HOT was Emma in that beginning scene?
She's so gorgeous. I want screen caps.
2. I loved Anya's little "bomb" warning to
Xander - it was sweet in that weird, tactless way of hers.
3. Liked Tara in this episode. Socializing with Buffy is a good thing, and it was nice to see her interact with someone besides
Willow.
4. What about the beaming expression on Tara's face when Willow shared her 'Cat In The Hat' joke? How adorable!
5. I too, felt the acting/directing of the A/W fighting scenes sounded and felt stifled.
6. One of my favorite lines:
"I'm not stealing. I'm just taking things and not paying for them. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?"
LOL!
7. The Buffy/Dawn bonding scene was sweet and hit the right notes, I felt. Not too morose or melodramatic but still handled the issue okay.
8. "I said it's the end of the world. Weren't you listening?"
9. Buffy going into a conniption fit over
X/A - especially with the crying scene with Tara - lame. I guess she doesn't want them to end up like she is, but still - it's better than her moping over Riley the entire episode.
10. Finally, Anya/Willow, and magic - Anya knows all too well what can happen when you use magic powers unwisely - something she's not invested in now, because she's focused
on being a human. Willow is skirting close to the edge of where Anya was - maybe she could learn a bit from her, eh?
There's a very small difference between them.
Anya allowed her heartbreak to let her become a demon, and Willow dangerously toyed with that, and came close to doing the same thing. It's kind of like a Faith/Buffy thing,
if you think about it. Which makes Willow kind of a hypocrite, if she's playing with
the edge there, if she's accusing Anya of using magic for her own purposes - because she came very close to doing it, too.
I don't expect them to go into depth on that one, though. Especially since Anya isn't remorseful, but she is invested in her life as a human, esp. Xander. It's just something
to think about.
If Anya goes bad in the future, or flirts with going bad -- it may be an issue for Willow.
------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"
-(jewel)
"Spank us 'til Tuesday! We promise to be bad if you do!"
-(drusilla, angel)
by fell » Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:00 am
I love the arc they're doing with Spike. He's so funny.
Willow looked way cute. I just wish i hadn't been spoiled for her "gay now" line. I can only imagine what a trip that line would have been if i hadn't been expecting it. Spoiler ho no mo fo sho.
Is it just the power of suggestion or does Willow look like the cutest lesbian on the planet now? I like her hair a little curly if it's not long.
That's a good point about Willow turning down the same offer Anya accepted. That and their mutual protectiveness of Xander is the sort of synchronicity Joss loves.
Thank-you Rayne for the script notes. It seems that the parts that would have clarified and amplified Tara's role in some key scenes were the victims of editing for time. But for all the little annoyances and inconsistencies, they still manage to pack an amazing amount of great stuff into 40-some minutes.
by Nouvelle » Wed Jan 10, 2001 7:27 am
by drlloyd11 » Wed Jan 10, 2001 7:53 am
quote:
Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
Rayne, I think you're on to something about the director. I just got done with my third viewing and all the bothersome things go back to directing.Take the scene where Buffy and Tara rush into the Bronze. The director would have been the one to shoot the scene with Willow playing out the million-dollars gag instead of having Tara hug her, yes? That's not how I would have done it at all. If they were that pressed for time, they should have cut the "just checking" line - it's such a cliche that the gag actually works better with the last line unsaid, because the audience members are all filling it in themselves anyway. A hug from Tara would have been more true to character and a better bang for the few seconds they had available.
Even having said that, though, I still think this was one of the best eps of the year.
special.
Tara goes immediately to Willow, hugs her.
TARA
(to Willow)
I'm so glad you're okay.
BUFFY
What's going on?
Where'd he come from?
by Spring » Wed Jan 10, 2001 8:00 am
by xita » Wed Jan 10, 2001 8:02 am
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