Oh no, GG, I'm really sorry about your mom.

Good for you for coming out! I am sorry it was under such trying circumstances.

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Thanks, Holley.

While this was happening (the week-long death-watch, and then the aftermath), I couldn't help but remember this exchange:



GG ALS (aka Lou Gehrig's disease) "sucks beyond the telling of it". It took my mom over two years to die, killing her an inch at a time. It's really a blessing her struggle is over now, though. Out

GG - I'm so sorry both for your loss and for the 2 years before. I can really feel for you on that death watch thing.

Deb

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Menorah Tales | Working It Out | Random Bits

So yesterday it was my b day. Finally 18 and legally able to get into a club heh without my resident advisors id. But anyhow I digress. So of course its college and I am given a drink and basically I am not totally sh*t faced just enough to really loose inhibitions and trust me I have plenty of those when I am sober. So we go to the club we went to a month ago and the same guy that I danced with last time is there. So I dance with him again and by the end of the night he has kissed me and we have kissed for a bit and the thing is… 1 first kiss (yes 18 pathetic) and I didn’t enjoy it 2 I cant help feel that if it was with my best friend at college who is a girl I would have enjoyed the kiss a whole lot more hell I got more excited when she whispered in my ear than when I was kissing that boy.
And I am way to afraid to come out. I know the girl I am crushing on is straight and that there is no way in hell it would ever happen unless she is incredibly drunk and I wouldn’t want to make out with her then obviously.
I just can’t come out. I have a hard enough time saying it to myself. Not to mention even saying it online here. I mean holly crap I know the kittens are not against gays and it was bad enough typing it up online in a forum where it’s accepted.
And now the gang I hang out with (all girls) tease me constantly about making out with that boy and he keeps on calling me. I don’t want to date him or kiss him again and there is no way I can come out. I’m so frustrated… I don’t get crushes on guys ever I only notice girls and I am to big of a wimp to mention it let alone act on it.
I just wish well to many things to put down… but that’s my b day wish. To finally come out and have no one freak out on me.

ETA: Well I got a birthday wish come true! came out to a friend thats like an older sister (not with me at college or anything) and she didnt freak out. and it actually felt really good to know that I can now go and talk to her about anything because there isnt anything I have to hide. Much happier at this point.... oh and totally ignoring the guy and not answering his texts or phone calls.

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hate is just a faliure of immagination ~ The Power and the Glory by Graham Greene

You must first be who you really are, then do what you need to do, in order to have what you want. – Margaret Young

Morningstar - I'm sorry that it's taken me a few days to write a note but I'm also very glad to read the ETA. If you don't mind, I do want to offer some advice. It's not something I usually do unsolicited but ...

It seems from your note that you feel a lot of pressure over whether to come out or not, how will people accept you, what will happen, etc. And I know from experience that it can be really tempting to do that and feel a lot of pressure and excitement. But if you're not comfortable, there is no requirement to have full disclosure with all your friends and family. You feel like you like girls better than boys. Cool. That's a perfect place to be at 18 (or 28 or 38 or anytime). Go with that. Just try to get comfortable in your own skin and soul. You'll start to feel opportunities with people who feel safe for your coming out process.

I'm certainly not implying that you want to live your entire life in the closet. I'm totally out in every aspect and part of my life. But I'm 40 years old and it took me many years to get to this point.

So go easy on yourself and enjoy your experience.

Deb

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Menorah Tales | Working It Out | Random Bits

Ok, so I hope you guys don't mind but this might be a long post, but bear with me...

OK so I'm 20, and I'm VERY confused, I have no idea if I'm bi, straight or gay.

This is something I've been struggling with since I was about 14 - 15. I've always been close to girls and never really had many guy friends, I have a few but I'm not really close to them. Man I dont know how to type what I'm trying to say... Ok, to be honest I've never been comoftable around guys, I could start by saying "it all started when..." but I'm not here to talk about the bad things in my life. It just boiles down to the fact that I'm not comfortable around guys... It's gotten better in the last 2 years or so but still... Anyway I made a stupid mistake of trying to prove to myself or other people, I'm not sure, that I'm straight.

In jan this year I got hammered and took a random guy to my friends house and we had sex... It was my 1st time and I wish I hadn't done it, but I did. It was aweful and stupid and a big mistake but I find that now it's made me even more confused!

Ever since I was about 15 I've always thought how amazing it would be to be in love with another woman, and I still think that, I'm not sure if it's because I would feel more comfortable or because of my sexual orientation... With me so far or have I lost ya, lol. Sorry I'm just typin whatever comes into my head so that I don't chicken out and not post this.

I've never had a relationship... or well not really, I've had a few 'boyfriends' but I think it was because I was feeling like I was missing out on something, you know?
I want to see how I am with a girl, I feel that I would be happy with a girl, that there's more understanding and comfort with a girl, I've had a crush on a girl before, but only the one, appart from crushing on female celebs. but I have no gay friends to help me with this... My gaydar sucks beyond beliefe and I have no idea how to get out there and meet women.

I know if I was Gay my mum and dad would support me (after the 'you're sure that you gay' talk, lol) and my big brother would probably help hook my up (he's very protective of me and he'd be thrilled at the fact that a guy wouldn't screw me over, lol.) The majority of my friends would back me up as I've known them all for years and told them that I was confuesd and they were all very supportive.

But my best friend that I've only known for a year and a half I don't know how she'd react.

But to be honest I think I need to figure out whats going on with me before I worry about other people's opinions.

Ok so I've said it and got it off my chest, few.

Be safe, be happy.

XX Rachel XX

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Be safe. Be happy. XxXxXx

Wishing Peace, light and love to everyone.
Tara: 'Can we just skip it? Can, can you just be kissing me now?'
Tara: 'I am you know' Willow: 'What?' Tara 'yours'

Gatito Grande: condolences to your mum
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for my experience.......

past:
lets see, id had 5 exgirlfriends since grade6 (i know too young to have a relationship), my bestfriend (actually all the students in my old school knew) knows im gay didnt even have to say it to her, i studied in a private all-girls-school, right next to private all-boys-school (really didnt get the concept of separating the 2 genders w/ a bridge) so anyway im waaaay OUT. except i have 2 lifes

One while in school and another one when im at home or wherever im with my family (blood/extended)

my family would be ok with gay people just as long as ITS NOT ONE OF US. my sister found out that i had a gf and made me break up with her and made me promise that i should stop this nonsense or she'll send me to live in some secluded mountain.

present:

we moved elsewhere and ive only now seen how hard it is to come out to people. (ive always wondered why it was such a big deal, now i understand its because if cant turn to your family for support you turn to your friends, but if in turn they too push you away who will you go to?)
since living here ive only told one person i was bi, and we become close even making me out for a guy friend, asking me if i saw that hot girl..etc.. but he had to leave and now i have no one to talk to. which basically wasnt much of a problem before i came out to him.now i need someone to talk to w/o being judged.

for me i get it, they wont accept me if im not normal so ill marry a guy. but i just want to come out and be able to talk to them, not come out to be understood.
i guess thats what everyone wants though..

i hate how this starts to sounds from confidently hopeful to closeted.

and i have a boyfriend now but its not working out, is it because ive only been with women? or is this me really masking my identity so they wouldnt notice (my sis knows somethings up though)?

_________________


i have a bad habit of bumping up old stories...
shameless self-promotion

Yours - I have to say from reading your post that you sound like you're kind of in the perfect space. I mean you know that you're confused and you're pretty sure where the confusion lies. You've always been more comfortable with women? Ok, that's good to know. You're not comfortable with guys? Again, good to know. It sounds like most of the people around you are very supportive and loving which is fantastic. And the guy you made the mistake with? It was January so I assume that if you'd gotten pregnant or gotten a disease, you would have mentioned it so really, it's just about your feelings about it. You regret it and I'm sorry for that but you can learn from your mistakes--everyone makes them and lots of us make or made that exact one.

Now, how to meet women? Well, I'm no expert but I have a few thoughts. First is that you need to be happy first. So figure out what activities you like. Do you like listening to music, writing poetry, hiking, going to church? Do those things. As much as you can. There are probably groups (did you say you're in school?) around that focus on those things. You'll make friends. Some good friends. And one of them may be your perfect woman. Or some woman before the perfect woman. Or one of them may be the cousin of a guy who knows a girl that he'll run into while you and he are having coffee and you'll hit it off. But the bottom line is that if you look for hobbies that fulfill you, whether you meet someone or not, you'll be doing things you like. Does that make sense? Re: gaydar? Be open and keep your eyes peeled. You'll start to see women everywhere you go.

I don't know if this helps but I hope so.

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Menorah Tales | Working It Out | Random Bits

Just a question, delete it if it isn't supposed to go here.

Does this Coming Out Thread apply to Lesbians only or is it Gay, Lesbian and Bi-friendly?

Thanks

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There is one who creates, there are many who destroy. Either way, I don't like tall buildings.

This thread, all threads, and the entire board is for everyone. It's all totally LGBT-friendly.

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I came out to a friend at work today normally I keep it to my self but she was talking about me dating a man and I wont lie cause I am not ashamed of who or what I am. Now another friend said that I shouldn't have done that cause I could loose my job over that OK what year am I living in are they for real. wtf??? is this true can they find a way around this and get rid of me. I will not hide who I am for anyone. I do my job really well and never have troulbe so just try it.

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Dia the spelunker
Never underestimate the powerful love of a good woman
If you were a cave what kind of cave would you be

If they fire you because you are gay, you can sue them into the next century. But, they might come up with some bullshit 'decreased performance' thing in your file and fire you cause of that. I think it's a way to not get sued. But be careful.

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There is one who creates, there are many who destroy. Either way, I don't like tall buildings.

From a psychological point of view, coming out is always fraught with intense feelings as we all grow up with an internally built homophobic nature. Hopefully with the advent of gay coupling merging with the notion of human rights, we might find ourselves building a new form of contemporary culture that revels in an acceptance of different forms of family cells. For the time being, we can thankfully look forward to a select few role models such as the WT relationship to help us with the identification and acceptance of our sexual orientation.

I managed to come out to a few of my best friends only this year as I was born and bred in an Indian culture and I was 23 at that time. I still cannot fathom announcing my bisexuality to my family because of all the implications relative to this particular culture. However I intend on leaving my home country and moving to somewhere more open before finally picking up the courage to tell them there can be no traditional Indian wedding.

Vi’

That's great, nimloth. You have courage I certainly don't. Hell, I don't know if I can even post what I want to here. I have Hollywood ambitions and I have an inkling that if I ever made a success of myself, everything would be scrutinized and I'd never get anywhere. Better for me to wait and do it later.

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There is one who creates, there are many who destroy. Either way, I don't like tall buildings.

Hyia gals/guys I'm 15 and I don't know where to bang my head

I know that I'm lesbian and I've already csme out to most of my close friends (that makes...8 people) and I've been accepted big time (my guy friends now say 'I can talk to you as a girl and a boy woo-hoo')
anyway, I so don't have a problem with it, but I still can't come out to my parents.
well, to my dad I don't know if I'll ever tell him (I love him and he loves me, but he's ill, and I don't wanna fight with him)

to my mother...well, mother-knows-best and all, I think she already knows.
my friends say that if I suspect that she knows, then I should tell her.
I don't know why I'm holding back. she already told me that if I was she would love me and she mocked me about being original on everything.
I don't know, sometime I think that it's just that I don't wanna her to be right, I mean, I didn't really have a 'rebellious' time (still, maybe I'm too young) and this is my rebellion...
help? should I tell her or not?
(then again if I'm still holding back it means that I'm not ready, but crap! )

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|| Fanart...sort of || Short poetry || A little bit of smut never hurt anyone | Nothing left | Promise || Text ||

When I saw you I fell in love, and you smiled because you knew. -Arrigo Boito

hey Jay!
I recon if your mum has already said that she would still love you, then go for it! So if you havent already, then good luck! Neways, if indeed this is a rebellious stage of your life, and lesbianism is your rebellion, there's nothing wrong with that. I definately didnt have a rebellious time in my life. I've pretty much, gradually realised that this is who I am, and it wasnt really a shock for me at all to find out i was gay, despite all those stories about how difficult it is.
Maybe there's something wrong with me in that way, because it hasnt been some big life changing thing for me, it just seems natural.
And so, I have decided today to take the big step (well one of them anyway) and come out to my best friend. Tonight.
ah well, wish me luck, and look out for a new post on the crappy feelings thread in the near future
And jay/wt4evr? I am definately not ready to tell anyone about it, but i am so damn indecisive that i've figured im never going to actually be ready. So im just gonna do it, and face the consequences. 15 is not too young to come out!!! My lovely aunt came out to her parents at the age of 12. And she's fine.
cheers
Lifty

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If you're gonna get up, you might as well get up with me - Tegan and Sara

Saving Myself

jay,


im a big fan of not telling my parents.

if your not comfortable, you dont have to feel obligated to tell them. Coming out has become somewhat of cliche passageway into feeling "safe" about your gayness, or "accepting it", as if you're not truely gay until everyone around you KNOWS it. but... it sounds like from what you've said, you're allready pretty secure about it.

take it at your own pace, whenever you feel ready you can tell them. Maybe a situation will arise that will make it easier for you, who knows.

=) I've been happily gay for 7 years without telling mine.

7 YEARS?! Seriously??
Wow. I never tell my parents anything and I've gone 3 years without telling them, but I don't think I'll ever be able to survive 7 years.... wow.

_________________

"Your tears don't fall,
They crash around me.."

Hi gals
thank you you're all wonderful!!
Lifty I didn't mean lesbiaism is my rebellion, not telling might be my rebellion, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense..
and good luck with your friend! just so you know, when I first come out to my best friend (at the very young age of 12 {me too}) she looked at me and said 'and so? it's no like I won't be your friend anymore coz you're lesbian' ( I quote, she said these very words at the age of 13!!)
so best friends are full of surprises!
FunkyBeccaBecca I don't reallly care who knows now, my friends know and they love me (:aww)
but I really don't know where to bang my head....nevermind, sooner or later I'll tell my parents....

thank gals
platonically love you

_________________
|| Fanart...sort of || Short poetry || A little bit of smut never hurt anyone | Nothing left | Promise || Text ||

When I saw you I fell in love, and you smiled because you knew. -Arrigo Boito

i did it. the whole kit 'n kaboodle.

i've overcome the parental hurdle, and i'm so happy and proud to have done it.

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Lotus

congradulations Zooeys_Bridge!!!!! That's fantastic!! And im gathering it went well then?

_________________
If you're gonna get up, you might as well get up with me - Tegan and Sara

Saving Myself

thanks, Lifty! aye, it did! they both reacted exactly as i expected them to, and it'll be a little while before my mother completely digests, but they're asking questions and being very open and loveable.

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Lotus

Reading your posts Zooeys_Bridge has set me thinking about the differences between coming out in an individualistic culture and coming out in a collectivist culture. The mauritian collectivist background is set in a close-knitted extended family network. The successes, failures, happiness and pain of the children making up this extended family become the genuine concern of the whole network. Most importantly, this network operates through the concept of honour. I'm currently having immense difficulties in immunising myself against prior cultural learning. This is hereby hampering further efforts at coming out to a larger circle, especially where my parents are concerned. They would only take it as a breach of honour and suffer deeply.

While I have expressed my concerns to the friends I have come out to, interesting differences were noted in their reactions:

(1) Those friends, who are of a heterosexual orientation and coming from individualistic cultures, are positive that no rejection is possible on behalf of parents.

(2) Those friends, who are of a homosexual orientation and coming from individualistic cultures, purported that they would in no way reject their sexual orientation in favour of parental approval.

(3) Those friends, who are of a heterosexual orientation and belonging to the collectivist culture, expressed a certain reserve on the subject but understood the situation better. The question they seemed to be subtly asking was: does being gay provide one with a passport to hurt and bring dishonour to one's loved ones?

(4) Those friends, who are of a homosexual orientation, belonging to the collectivist culture and coming from rural backgrounds simply could not imagine hurting their parents and prefer to remain closeted as the stigma would be too harsh to bear. Those coming from urban regions have no wish to remain closeted but still feel coming out to parents is too painful to be acted out rashly.

There might naturally be further cultural differences in these perceptions and I would have really liked to get to know your diverse points of view.

Kind regards,
Vi'

Ah, nimloth, that is really interesting! I'd like to hear what others from various cultures have to say as well.

I'm in the US, which is most definitely a very individualist culture and my feeling is the same as (2) above - I would never put parental approval above being true to myself. Naturally, I am a product of my culture and so am biased in favor of its perspective. (Keep that in mind as you read my opinion - I am acknowledging my bias.)

In my view, if parents are unwilling to accept their children as their children naturally are, that is shameful for the parents and reflects poorly on their capacity to unconditionally love their own children. In individualist cultures, parents are expected to give their children the freedom to "discover themselves" and emotionally support their children and the decisions their children make regarding how they wish to live their lives. We often say things like "It's your life!" to people who are concerned about their parents' approval.

I don't mean to suggest that parental approval is unimportant in the US - for most of us, we do very badly want that approval - but if it comes down to an either/or situation in which you can have either your parents' approval or live your life as you wish, we do consider it better to live your life as you wish. Losing the approval of your parents, your extended family, and/or your community is not necessarily considered a bad thing, at least under many circumstances. As a culture, we applaud the individual who struggles against a family which does not support her/him, and it is generally considered shameful for parents to reject a GLBT child for no other reason than sexual orientation. (Obviously this is not true of absolutely every single USAmerican family. You can certainly find pockets throughout the US in which being gay is still very taboo and a family that does not reject a GLBT member might be shunned to some degree by the community.)

I was fortunate in my own coming out that I did not have to chose between parental approval and being able to live openly as a lesbian, but if I had been forced to make that choice, I would absolutely have chosen to live openly, even if it meant breaking all ties to my family forever. In fact, I would probably have also told my family to go to hell and been profoundly disappointed in them as human beings that they would reject me over something as relatively unimportant as my sexual orientation. (Not to suggest that our sexual orientation is unimportant to us. Of course it is very important. But as grounds to shun, ostracize, or reject someone, no, it is not important.)

I am not sure if collectivist cultures have this concept of "chosen family" that some individualist cultures have. nimloth? The chosen family are the people around you who function as family members but who are not actually related to you by blood or marriage. They might seem to be your very best friends, but they provide the same social support network that family should. Chosen family is especially important for people who have lost (or never had) a good relationship with their family for whatever reasons. We also have a sense here that, often, it isn't your family that treats you the best or loves you the most, it's your friends.

I am certain that, had I grown up in a collectivist culture, my take on this would be different. I understand the collectivist perspective and I do not believe it to be wrong or bad, but I must be honest - from my (admittedly biased) point of view, I am glad that my culture supports the idea of me being free to be myself without this tremendous pressure to maintain my family's honor.

I am really looking forward to hearing what you, nimloth, and others have to say about your own perspectives and experiences.

_________________

maudmac, I guess it would also be a source of bias if I were to generalise on the delimitation of gay culture in collectivism as a whole but if we lay the focus on certain collectivistic cultures where patriarchy is the domineering style, the bloodline is of extreme importance. The ''chosen family'', though it exists, cannot stand its forte as an effective social buffer against discrimination. Unfortunately, this is a factor that is of primary importance whether it be in the individualistic or collectivistic society.

In accordance with my personal history, my adolescent years were spent with the belief that I was the only person around with a homosexual orientation. Gayness in Mauritian society is mostly (and in many cases falsely) attributed to transsexuals, transgendered people or the atypical stereotype of a man with womanly mannerisms or a girl who acts 'butch'. It's the sole exposure people over here have had of homosexuality and this has been negative in the sense that the concept of 'normalcy' has been eradicated from what it really means to be gay.

I have only just learnt that one of my youngest cousins has been chucked out of school because of inordinate sexual behaviour. Apparently, she was found making out with another girl in the school grounds. I really thought our family would pass out upon learning it . In any case, it didn't sound very nice the word 'lesbian' rolling off their tongues. It made me cringe more than they were cringing.

For the time being, it's being shushed and kept as ''the'' shameful family secret and everyone's hoping it's a simple phase and that she will outgrow it by the time she reaches her twenties.

Poor cousin, I hope she turns out all right.
Vi

So i havent told my parents that im lesbian, and its been about a year now or almost. Im a junior in high school, next year would be my senior and final year there and after that i will probably be going away to college or something, i really dont want to stay in at home and go to school here....but any ways....i've been thinking, that maybe once im out of the house and its been sometime and im doing fine and in college i could tell them about my sexuality. But they will more then likely help me pay for college. If they arent ok with it then they can stop helping me pay for it, or pull me out of school

And i have no idea how they would take the news. They're religious catholics,i havent really ever brought up the subject but i think they would be alright about it maybe just really disappointed.

So the question is....should i tell them once im out of the house and in college....or wait till after im through with school, or can do it on my own.

hey wicca ness, i'm in exactly the same situation as you. I'd rather tell them after school though, because that way, if they take it badly i am able to leave home without too much fuss. This year is my last year of school, so i'll see how it goes.

good luck!
Lifty xo

_________________
If you're gonna get up, you might as well get up with me - Tegan and Sara

Saving Myself

Hi girls,

I'm also thinking of coming out to my family once I'm wholly independent and that would mean migrating, repaying any monetary debts relative to education and gaining access to a work permit/permanent residence somewhere else. Good luck to both of you for your respective ventures!

Ness, I think in situations of coming out to one's parents, each individual's personal context needs to be taken into consideration. How about replaying the benefits and implications that revealing your sexuality to your parents could imply and go forward whenever you feel ready to face these?

Regards,
Vi'

Hey, Thanks Lifty and Vi, thats some good advice from both =]